The Father Wound Part 2 w/ Amir Khalighi: Judgment, the Lone Wolf Trap, and Re-Fathering Yourself

Welcome back to The Circle. In our last episode with Amir Khaligi, we opened up the conversation around the father wound, how absent or emotionally distanced fathers can quietly shape the way we trust, feel, and show up in the world. But what happens once we realize the wound is there? In part two of our conversation, Amir returns to help us explore what it actually takes to face the father wound, and why so many of us get stuck along the way to healing it. We look at how this wound lives in the body and shapes our relationships, and what becomes possible when we stop trying to navigate it alone.

Tim, Amir, are you ready to go all in?

Let's do it.

I'm ready.

Let's go. Amir, welcome back to the circle.

Thank you so much for inviting me back.

Glad to have you.

Appreciate it.

In our last conversation, we talked about the father wound as a kind of primal rupture. How the absent or emotionally distant father can shape our sense of safety, force us into roles we're not quite ready for, and influence how we move through the world. To begin today, let's recap. How can someone begin to understand if they have a father wound, and what are some of the things that they might notice first?

Well, again, thanks for inviting me back to the space. I I always enjoy spending time with you both, and I'm really proud of the work that you're doing in the world. So the question is, how does how does this father wound masthesize and and show itself in in day to day life? Would that be sufficient? Yes.

Am I on point? Okay. I think one of the pieces we wanna look at here is the lone wolf syndrome or the lone wolf archetype. I don't need anybody. I don't really trust anybody.

Right? Not trusting not being able to lean on others, not not be able to actually lower our vigilance in day to day life. So if your vigilance is hypersensitive about you know, for me, I'll give you an example. So for me, not having my father be present in my life physically made me feel unsafe, like, physically. So when I was a young child, in order to be able to fall asleep, I would put a pretend shield around my body so my body could relax.

So my so what I was doing at the age of seven, I was regulating my own nervous system through visualization and creating a sense of safety for myself so I could relax. Now that that was sufficient to go to sleep, but it wasn't sufficient to deal with the wound. And, ultimately, my vigilance just perpetually got tighter. And by the time I had children, it it had it was on a super heightened level. I was overly worried about their well-being.

Overly. Like, you know, I think to this day, I still you know, when I when everyone goes to sleep, I shut the house down, which means I I take care of the the missing pieces that I sense can potentially cause danger to my family. Now to some degree okay. But if it's over that line of, like, you know, you know, what's There's a threshold. Person.

There's a threshold. So there's an if there's an oversensitivity, then then you know it. People that live with hypervigilance are generally dealing with such wounds as they show up.

The image that's coming up for me is this, like, that when you're talking about lone wolf, when you're in a pack, you're you can be vigilant, but you know other people are being vigilant too, that everyone's sort of working together. And it sounds like the lone wolf is, oh, well, I've been modeled either with physical separation or sort of emotional separation that I'm kind of in charge. I have to take care of myself. I'm not I'm not on a team. Is that what I'm hearing?

Absolutely. Absolutely. Like, no one's got this. Like, I gotta deal with this. And if you start to put yourself in a position of a seven, eight, nine, 10 year old's body that says, I gotta deal with life.

I gotta deal with chaos. Too much. I mean, what is trauma? Too much, too fast. Right?

Too much, too fast. So most most men that have a father wound are really tight around allowing other people to support them, allowing themselves to be supported, going outside the realm of letting other people in when things get challenging for them. They go silent. They go quiet. I and I've been on this path for years, and I still have reminisces of this.

I mean, you know this about me, Tim. Tim's had to come and be like, okay. We're doing we're we're gonna take care of you. I mean, you know, I'm human. I've I've gone I I've I I am human.

I have human experiences and human challenges. And and, you know, to this day, if something super heavy comes my way, my my first muscle memory or the architecture of the movement of my interior world is to go like this and to go in. That's like lived architecture, which means I have to I have to work against that and really working that edge for myself to to be able to receive.

I think it might be interesting if we were to talk a little bit about if a man had a strong conscious father figure, did have the safety or the connection and the protection that a father can provide, what what can he experience that you can't experience if you don't have it? What what is

the goal? What what is what is he experiencing?

Right. What is the goal? And then and then because I feel like if we understand the goal that we could have had or maybe should have had and that we don't, it'll give us perspective on, well, how do I now create that consciously for myself? So so what what would that look like?

I think what I think what the child that has a present father in his life is experiencing is, one, all is welcomed. Okay? All of him is welcomed. All of his expressions are welcomed that he can be fully himself and be met. So first and foremost, I am enough.

Okay? So first and foremost, I can be myself, and I can bring all of me. And there is this figure that can hold presence for all of that. And when that happens, the body relaxes. Right?

So in my when I'm at my best with my seven year old, she can have any expression that she needs. Now I'm not talking about bad behavior. I'm not okay. I'm not talking about, like, parenting is parenting. We're gonna put that on the side.

I'm talking about when she is for whatever. Maybe she's flooded with fear, and my capacity to be with that expression is fully there, and she is met. She doesn't have she there there's no part of her that feels like this is on her. Like, she's lost in it. Like, I she is not lost in it.

I am supporting her ex I'm supporting that aspect of her to live without it needing to anything needing to happen to it. And my regulation teaches her silently how to regulate. My simple presence, my grounded presence, if I'm truly grounded, if I'm truly present with her, that in and of itself will reg teach her without words how to regulate. K? So she is feeling a sense of safety.

She's feeling a sense of not being alone. She's feeling a sense of being met in her challenge. She feels like she can trust. She can lean on. She doesn't have to do it alone, all the opposite of the lone wolf.

I'm hearing a lot of parallel to now men's work. Because what I feel like I'm hearing you say is allowing a person the opportunity to have their fullest expression and sometimes even be overwhelmed by it, but in a safe way so that they can start to understand where their edges are. And I feel like we do this in men's work too. Like, oh, I'm I'm learning where my edge is, and occasionally, I might get pushed past my edge. And I can understand what that is too.

But in the safety of this container, I can then use that to have an understanding of, well, now here's my edge. This is what it feels like to get pushed past. This is what I can do. So it feels like that's, like what we do in men's work is creating the same thing that you were discussing in parenting to allow someone to to really experience their their their expression. And the the thing that's coming up is I keep thinking about, like, when I was a diver.

You're learning a new dive, and sometimes you over rotate, and sometimes you under rotate. But that experiences teach you how to do it the most correctly. There is some value in over rotating in your, like, forward dive with a half twist. And there's some value in that. And and then you go back the next time, and you're like, well, now I have a clear idea of how much I can rotate.

Does that Here here's the here's the nugget that we are coming upon right here. The nugget here is that we have to learn as adult men how to father ourselves. The unconscious piece is when we outsource that that to others in relationship. No one is coming. No one will be enough.

No one will say it when you need to hear it. No one that moment is gone. That moment between a child and a father in a sense is gone. What we are doing is giving you a safe environment to go back in and learn how to reparent, refather yourself.

Mhmm.

And as part of that exploration, all the judgments that we've held, all the feelings that we have not felt have to be now in that safe space, sat with, confronted, worked with, experienced, that is healing. That's what healing is. Healing is the capacity to revisit that space from a new paradigm where you get to shepherd yourself through that experience.

To, in the case of not having a father figure who was able to hold space to be able to, with grounded presence, say you are enough and all of you is welcome, That not having that can create that father wound that leads us to not feeling safe, leads us to feeling hyper vigilant in the world. And what we're saying is that there are ways in which you can revisit that and go into that space and bring to yourself the message of you are enough. You are all welcome here.

Yeah. And I think what I really wanna, like, focus on just separating here is you are not responsible for the healing. You are responsible for the willingness to go into an environment that is conducive for healing and having the courage and the willingness to be in that space. Right? Healing naturally happens.

It is in the it's intrinsically as part of the fabric of life. Right? So you don't when you get a cut, you don't have to focus on how to heal. You're like, heal. Right?

It heals. It heals. But it needs it needs a environment where you can go and and be with that wound. Now, of course, we are calling up a version of you that is yet to come and is but is coming forth that can do this. That's why men's work is important.

That's why everything that you mentioned is is important to be able to have that support system and encouragement. So I need to be able to see you in that healed state, and then you get to see yourself through my eyes. Now we we don't wanna get too far off the topic here. But yes, yes, men's work really is the the space for you to to have that explorative experience if you wish to go heal this wound.

So creating the causes and the environment from in which healing is most possible is what I'm hearing you say.

Yeah. And my question would be so we talked about some of the characteristics that can pop up when somebody is dealing with an unresolved father wound, the lone wolf, I don't trust anyone, I have to do everything by myself. And so if I've started to become aware of these attributes, why would I seek out healing?

You don't have to. Don't. Live that life.

And how would that

You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah. This is this is the I look. No one can be coerced, pushed into healing.

No like I always say, you can't yell at a flower to grow any faster. Okay? If you're at the precipice of wanting to change the trajectory of your life, if you're on the precipice and you have the willingness to stop running from certain patterns that are kicking your ass in life, and and you and the suggestion is stop running, pause, turn around, and begin to face what's here. There is support for you to do this. Okay.

Now we can talk. But to someone who is not ready, who is not willing, you are wasting your breath. Mhmm.

Otherwise, if if they're not ready, it's impacting their relationships. It's impacting their ability receive, to be held, and the weight of the world is just getting heavier and heavier and heavier on their shoulders. I mean, can say it like the weight of the world was getting heavier and heavier and heavier on my shoulders before I started to look at was like, I can do everything on my own. Fuck everyone. Like, I don't trust anyone, especially if you're a man.

Especially men.

Especially if you're a man. I do not trust

you Telltale. At all. Telltale that you have a father wound.

And so how often do you see men projecting their unresolved father wounds onto other men, especially those in leadership?

That's a softball. You just you just threw me a softball. You know, we have a robust community. We have we have a thriving, robust community at embodied masculine. I would say with the men, as they get more intimate into, let's say, leadership or, you know, they've been they've been doing the work for a while and, you know, they're deep in it with the different programs.

If we take those men, right, so let's say they are 20% of the spectrum of men that just come and practice once in a while. Maybe the maybe it's even more. Maybe it's like I don't know, Tim. What do you think?

I mean, it it could be 40%. 40%? Yeah.

Right? Yeah. Let's say 40% of the men wanna go deep. Of that 40%, I would say 20% on some level want to project their stuff onto leadership. Now that could I have experienced it personally multiple times.

I don't take it personally. Does it hurt? Kinda. Do I take it personally? Not no.

I don't take it personally because I know what we're dealing with. My work in the world is to work primarily with men with father wounds. It's not something that I only do, but they tend to navigate to me because I've I've overcome it to a certain extent in my life, and it becomes the calling card of or the resonance, energetic resonance of what my work in the world is. So I tend to call a lot of men with Michael energy and father wounds. I would say about seventy five percent.

And I still work with plenty of men that are mother wounds or, you know, other issues. Of that forty percent, I would say maybe twenty percent of that. You know? And that, you know, that transference, as Jung calls it, is a natural phenomenon. It's not personal.

And the more you guys step into leadership, and I know Tim has, I'm sure, already experienced this. Tim runs his own you know? And I would be very curious on your perspective. But, yeah, like, men will just disappear. Like, people that have been really close, you know, I've had people also, like, you know, go off the handle, you know, in certain situations.

Most of them will just disappear. And I'm like, oh, they just hit a threshold on this, and they need to take time and, like, be a way to realcomize and come back to the table.

Well, that's why this conversation is so important because what I'm hearing and what I've observed, I've in my own experience and observing you, is that these these moments can actually be opportunities. If

Huge.

Yeah. If there is a context around it and a willingness to kind of sit in the fire, the discomfort of that, transformation can happen. But I and I think when you talk about people stepping away, it maybe they needed, like, wait. There is a there's a there's a nugget here for you if you're willing to just sit for a second, if you're willing to stay.

You're you're bringing up such an important point, Tim. Because what what Tim is talking about is that we want that charge to come up. We want that we want it to come up because that's the space where we get to actually have an opportunity to make a difference, make a choice that's different and make a change, really participate in the in in in in the alchemization of this. Right? And what I'm reminded of, and we we can go into it as deeper as little as you want, is that this was not a father wound per se.

Maybe it was. I don't really know. But in the early years of Tim being in in my container, There was a moment where there was turbulence, something came up that needed to come up, and Tim sat on at the precipice of a crossroad. He could have picked the can for another five, ten years and pulled himself away and disappeared. People have done that.

And they have the right to do that. Or just had the tolerance enough to just be with the discomfort and just enough to hear or and see the other road. Let the other road open just a little bit and tip in the direction of the new.

So I'm not entirely sure which specific thing you're referring to because there have been more than one.

I More than one.

But I will

say I I I'm thinking of I'm thinking of the the

The sweat lodge? Yeah. Yeah. But, yes, it was very uncomfortable. And on the other side of it was growth, expansion.

I mean, I remember twenty four hours later in that experience, and we don't need to get into the details, but, you know, twenty four hours later, I felt expanded, different. I felt like I had served another brother. I I just felt like everything had changed, but I absolutely was like, I'm driving the fuck out of this desert. I don't wanna be here. I'm like, I was, you know, and like that's that's where you met me in that place.

It was so uncomfortable. And the opportunity. And you you very skillfully reminded me that there was an opportunity, which was part of the part of why I was able to stay and the safety of a container. So when we go back to, like, oh, those things were those structures were in place. So even when I was sort of, like, bubbling, I was able to feel enough safety to stay.

But there was an this the healing happened because of you, not because of me, and I'll tell you why. I'll tell you why right now. The version of you that chose to stay chose to trust me. That's why I think there was elements of a father within that. Your willingness to reengage into that type of dynamic relationship.

Right? I I I, you know, I I'm I'm a figure. I have in that dynamic, I have power. I I'm like, you know, a teacher. You are you are trusting so that movement that you made in that furnace of reactivity when normally you'd be like, I'm fucking out of here.

Fuck you. And maybe you did that nine out of 10 times, but on this occasion, you were able to be with the fire long enough, nervous system regulation, all the times that you've been doing practices, gave you an opportunity to be able to stand in that fire long enough to see the new option and then having the willingness to make that move change the trajectory of your life, I would say. And every time we are at a precipice of these crossroads, we get to either repeat a pattern or birth a new universe in experience and reality. The problem with people that are the the when I say you have the right to repeat your patterns as much as you want, you don't have to do any healing unless you want it or or you keep getting the same fucking results. That's the thing with trauma.

It the life will you know, it it has a contract with with life where, like, okay. I'm gonna keep repeating this thing for as long as it's needed until he gets it.

The the brotherhood also. And, like, when we recall that moment, the brotherhood, John Yang, Jason, these they were also they were also a part of that experience for me even if they weren't in the room having the conversation. And so when we think about creating these communities, it was that too. Because I'm like, oh, well, you know, there was

all these, like, sources of trust and love that participated. Yeah, trust. So if I am understanding correctly, one of the roots of this flare up, this crossroads moment was Tim, underneath it all saying, I don't trust you. I don't trust this container, and I have a judgment about that. I have a judgment about your capacity, your ability to trust.

He he verbalized it.

Oh, I said that. Right. Yeah. So so that right there, you were then able to develop a trust in the container in this man in front of us today and to start to work through that judgment. So I think this is the the pass off to, like, what are what ways in which, like, this type of judgment shows up as we're dealing with with men or other father figures?

Right?

Like Yeah. Well, the the that's a two it's a two step dance because as the other person, as the recipient, I you know, in the position I was in, I had to see what this was for itself. I could have very easily made it about me like, what the hell are you talking about? This is not a safe space. It's an absolute safe space.

Let me tell you all the reasons this is a safe space. And I could have made my case and I could have could have turned into a lawyer and no one would have been served. Or I could have been like, oh, this is his protection mechanism that it's doing its thing. I'm gonna be with it. And when I sense an opening, I will present my perception of the situation, and let's see if he can see it.

Right? So on my side, it takes as a let's say the father figure, it takes some skill set. Right? So if I every time I had to, like, debate with my seven year old about something, I'd lose the fight. Right?

I don't need to prove to her that I'm, you know, that I'm not x a, whatever she thinks I am. Like, I need to be able to pull back and see what's happening. So that's on one side. On Tim's side, he had to, like, be able to see that he does this. I do this.

The quick to judgment, the the quick to

Yeah. Like, I I do this. And to be able to see what that judgment is really doing, I know what it's doing. Do you do you guys have a sense of what it's doing?

Protecting. It's a different Yes.

It's exactly what it's doing. It is a gatekeeper. It is a guy with a fucking leather jacket with and a bat in his hand Bot. That is protecting, well, you you have a different he's like, yeah. Let's wait.

Wait. This is great. Please, Eric, tell us what he looks like for you.

Well, if it's that case, I'm like, oh, well, sign me up for that club. Back to it. But he's gatekeeper to Whatever

your whatever your gatekeeper is dressed as. Alright. That's what judgment does. Judgment keeps people away from that wound.

So it's when when someone is working with their with their father wound and wanting to bring awareness to it, bring healing to it, recognizing that that is just like parts of our shadow, like, there for a reason. And it's it's about understanding it and meeting it. It's it's not about judging it, judging the judgment, but rather, oh, I see you. I understand why you exist, and now I get to look into how it is serving or not serving me and making conscious choices around that. Is that what I'm hearing?

Almost. Almost. So I think I think understanding what it's there and what it's doing is really important. But what we wanna get to is the experience of emotions that are unexpressed underneath inside of that wound. Right?

So I'll give you an example with my own father and my my father line, really. So and I've talked about this in another podcast. I'll try to keep it short. But I I growing up, I had a huge judgment around my father, his father, his ability I mean, I his ability to carve his own path, like, you know, his addictions. I had I had all these I had all these judgments about him.

And it wasn't until, you know, I was actually in a ceremony in VHS, which you both have gone to. And I was in this I was in this ceremony, and I started to have, like, like, a deep need for some fatherly love, let's say. And I immediately heard my own voice. Okay. This is what we do.

I'm gonna father myself. I'm gonna take I'm gonna allow to be the safe space for me to be be able to feel what's coming up. And simultaneously, as I was doing that, I could feel almost like an energetic like, energetically, we were in ceremony. I could energetically feel the presence of my father in that space. And I it was like almost of like a like a barometer.

Like the like the the less I judged him, the more I could feel his presence in my life. And once I turned the judgment down enough, I got to the feelings. I I was fucking pissed. How fucking dare you, like, not show up for me? I missed you.

You missed your grandkids. Like, I just started pouring into I I I almost felt like it wasn't going to end, like, how much emotion I I had in my heart in that wound. But as soon as I really allowed myself to feel that, I could feel more and more of his presence near me. And I I started to actually go from holding space for myself into leaning into him energetically for the first time ever maybe, ever. I'm a 54 year old man.

This was a few years ago. I'm like, you know, 50 years old or whatever I was. And I really got to I have this somatic healing of of an understanding that judgments just keep me away. Judgments just keep me away. Keeps a distance between me and others.

Or you the more

you judge, the less you were able to bring those emotions to the surface. I'm I'm pissed that you couldn't come up because of how much judgment was in the way.

Yeah. I couldn't really tap into the feelings. We'll get that's what judgment does. It creates a distance not from you to them. It creates a distance from you to you.

It creates a distance from you to you. Wow.

And at the end of the day, healing has to happen with you to you. Healing is a open it's it's allowing the the the wound to be open, to be exposed to light, And then naturally, healing begins to happen.

You know, this makes me think of this concept of, you know, emotions or or experience. And if and if we don't allow ourselves them, then they kind of get stuck. So it sounds like part of the healing is I have to I have to allow myself to feel it or experience it, or or I'm just gonna carry it with me. And then if I'm carrying it with me, especially if I'm carrying it with me unconsciously, that's when it's most likely to come out sideways in ways that I don't even fully understand or maybe can't control.

And add an add another layer to the problem. You have a society that is shame based around any child's expressions, emotional expressions. We call it feminine expression. It's but it's really it's not about gender. It's just that, you know, all children have that within them, this desire to express.

And when you're shamed or when it's collapsed at a young age and now you're a 35 year old man that you're like, I can't feel anything. I don't you know, they've it's almost like a severance that has happened within yourself internally. And that becomes the work of, like, how to reintegrate, how to reclaim aspects of yourself, aspects of pieces of you that you've left behind that you're disconnected from. That's why in half practices that, you know, I bring and you bring in in your circles, you know, they're half of them are feminine embodiment practices because we need to deepen our capacity and and deepen our sensitivity to our own emotional bodies, not only in in being able to be witness and be with them, but also to be a safe container for ourselves, which is what are we doing? We're fathering ourselves.

Right? I'm like, you're that part. Like, learning how to do that in men's work is a huge component of men's work. And I would venture to say that majority of majority don't. It's not on their radar.

It's definitely on our radar.

So along the the healing path and specifically around this ceremony and the days afterwards during integration, the ability to turn down the dial on judgment allowed some healing to take place. So I'm curious, was that healing about forgiveness or reconnection?

More for reconnection for me. Some forgiveness, definitely more reconnection because the same way I judge them about x, y, and z, I'm internally judging myself because I know I am a part of that clan. And I think for me, coming to, you know, dropping the judgments, feeling the feelings really gave me an opportunity to take my rightful place in my masculine lineage. You know? I really felt their support on what I was alchemizing for all our behalfs.

I really felt their presence and appreciation for the first time. And and, you know, I this is a part of me that that I I had disavowed within myself, not just my father and my grandfather, but, like, the whole masculine lineage.

So reconnecting to them through toning down judgment and being able to reconcile of sorts to to be able to forgive or forget, like, what

are the When when you when you when you stop judging something, you actually begin to see it for what it is. Because when you're judging, you're putting a wig and a and a lipstick on it that you want. But when you stop doing that, you can start to actually, like, see people for who they are, the essence of them. Right? And I found myself I'm like, you know what?

I judge them for being like street wise and tatted up. And I had all these judgments about them, know, like, oh, they're not good fathers. And dude, I am fully tatted up. I'm a I'm a I used to be a street hustler when I was a kid. Like, I'm like, wait a minute.

Those are all judgments I have about myself too. And it just it all just started to crumble.

Yes. There's a there's a little bit of forgiveness about them and a reconciliation about them, but really it's it's about forgiving yourself for judging them for so long and really recognizing that the judgment had less to do with them as it did with yourself.

Yeah. I think it just kept kept me from it kept me from them. And we are we are not designed this way. We are not designed to be islands. We are we are interconnected beings, whether it's friendship or family.

And you don't have to like your family or even hang out with them. But I think there is value in assessing our judgments about them, I think there is value in seeing where there's a blind spot within us that needs attention, whether that's a healing or a shadow. I mean, this is really the type of men I wanna hang out with.

What is the danger in the projection of the perfect dad? Because when we're talking about this, it sounds like we're bringing into the conversation a recognition that people are are meeting us where they they they can. And I'm thinking about my own father, and, you know, he didn't he didn't have certain things modeled to him, and he didn't have men's workspaces that I'm aware of. And so that awareness helps me soften a little bit. Be like, okay.

Well Sure. And but I do think that sometimes we get this idea of, like, well, this is what it should have been. This is what the ideal father should have been, and now I'm mad at you for not for not being Yeah. Well, I

I I think, you know, intellectualizing and and getting into the heart of what you're feeling and expressing it are two different things. Right? I think I think they're I think I don't yeah. I mean, look. My dad did his thing.

It was his path. It doesn't have to be my path. Doesn't have to be the way I think it needs to be. Right? I mean, I'm having a similar thing with, you know, my eldest daughter.

She probably doesn't think my path is the path the way it should be. Like, her coming to terms with that, that's hers. Mine is like, you know what? You did your thing. And as my father, I love you.

Do I have pain around the your lack of presence in my life? You better fucking believe it. Am I am I taking responsibility in addressing that? You better fucking believe it. I'm not outsourcing this anymore.

I'm not saying you fix me relationship. You love me, make me feel safe relationship. Like, I'm I I don't I don't want that because it's too painful for me, and it's too painful for the intimate people in my relationship. It's not fair. So if you're outsourcing your pain because you can't hold it, you're gonna keep getting same results until you're like, okay.

I need some help. Somebody fucking help me. Perfect place to be.

And I'm really hearing that, you know, people who are approaching this part of their own journey and their own healing, it does not need to be connected to repairing or or or liking your father or father figure. That isn't that is that isn't a requirement for this work in the ceiling.

Yeah. Reconciliation has nothing to do with having a relationship with someone, a continued relationship. I've had some powerful reconciliations, and there has been nothing about that person that I wanna continue to have another relationship with. But did I need to take ownership around certain things? Yeah.

Did they need to say their peace? Yeah. In the name of, like, creating space and freedom because, you know, I want I don't want anything dangling with people. Right? And with family, it's a little bit harder.

So when somebody gets to that moment of, like, finally being on their knees, being like, can somebody please help me? That starts to sound like the breaking point and is the antithesis of what this wound can manifest as, that whole, I can do this on my own. I don't need support. Don't need any help. The sheer fact of somebody raising their hands like, I'm ready and ready to receive help is a huge first step.

And then along the path of healing, as a man chooses to face this consciously, what begins to shift for him? Not just for himself, but the generations that came before and that come afterwards?

Yeah. So I think one of the one way to describe this is that, you know, before any great change, there's great turbulence. Okay? If you can withstand the turbulence, you'll have your breakthrough. You'll have your breakthrough.

I'm reminded of, you know, I'm reminded of and this is don't know if this and we're talking about armies and and air and air force and planes. Is that cool? It's like, okay. Let's go. You know, I was like, you know, the the Russians in The US were were in a race to break the sound barrier.

I think I've shared this story with with you, Tim. Yeah. And these planes they would make every time they got close to Mach one, the planes would rattle and they would explode, and and they lost pilots. Ultimately, they get they get the plane they think is the plane, it's called an x one, and they get the pilot that they think can do it, Chuck Yeager. They go to him, they say, look, time is of essence.

We have to do this. We think you're the man to do it. And he says, okay. He does it. He's climbing up.

Everybody's watching. And the same fucking thing. As soon as he starts to get close to Mach 1, the plane starts to rattle uncontrollably. And the only difference in with what Jaeger did and all the other ones was

He kept going. He pushed through.

He throttled forward instead of pull back. Everybody would pull back because the throttling was too intense or they would eject. He throttled forward, and he said the moment he broke the sound barrier, everything went still. He said you could serve tea to the queen. Like, everything went still.

So these moments these moments of turbulence, these moments of upheaval are really, like, your calling card that you're on the precipice of of potentially something incredible, a shift in your life. But it always depends on your willingness to be able to tolerate the uncomfortability and begin to see the landscape for what it is and, like Tim, make a new choice in moving in a new direction.

I was laughing earlier because, as you know, there's been my life has had some turbulence. And so that that message feels uniquely well timed for me today. So thank you for that reminder.

You're welcome. You're welcome. And I know you know how to do it.

Yeah. And it's it's it's still scary. I have to imagine, you know, for someone listening to this podcast and thinking about doing this work, each step feels like an adventure. And there are moments where it feels really challenging again. And that's why having teachers, having structures, having community, having brothers, having context and conversation are all really, really important because sometimes it feels like a lot.

And those are the things that if you are the lone wolf and you are standing by yourself, it's maybe too much to hold. If It is too much. If you're in the pack, then okay. It doesn't mean I'm not uncomfortable, but it means that it is shared and supported in a way that allows me to keep moving. I'm walking this tough road, but I'm not alone.

Let me tell you something. If you're on the path of self actualization, which this is what this is, self actualization is new renditions of you consistently evolving and coming into being, the process is going to be fucking painful, and it will be messy. Just like a delivery of a baby, it is fucking painful, and it is fucking messy, and it is magic in its purest essence. That's you're engaging in your own evolution consciously. Is it gonna be hard at times?

Yes. That's really what, you know, what this is about. I mean, we do the healing to start to step into newer versions of ourselves that are that are aching to come through.

Gotta interrupt the the cycle to create something new.

Yeah. And and and that something new could be a long string that is karmically connected to, you know, your ancestry line. And when you heal here, you're just sparking this healing, and it moves up and down this thread backwards, forwards to your children, to your to your ancestors. So that is there's truth in that.

So connecting to the lineage of where we came from and what will come after us. Healing, what I just heard you say, helps to remedy or resolve up the line and down the line.

Absolutely. And if every if everything is energy and you're shifting your energetic biofield, what's happening to the line? It's shifting.

And what becomes possible in a man's life and in his relationships as that line begins to shift?

I mean, we could spend an hour on this, but I really believe life wants to give you everything that's in your heart. That's it. That's in alignment to, like, to your highest good. Now we may think we need certain things, but really for your highest good. It wants to give you what is in your heart.

And I think the I think coming to terms of the fact that that is possible is a lot of power for men to come to terms with. And, historically, men with power don't have a great track record. So as we individually learn how to wield conscious power, we are also alchemizing, you know, in a societal sense, the unconscious collective of toxic masculinity, what that means. And a lot of it is just unconsciousness. A lot of toxic masculinity is just unconsciousness, whether it's unconsciousness from a father to a son.

You know, he's just on he's not aware of what's happening. He's preoccupied in his own story, so there's no presence for him. Right? And it is this awakening that that I think so presence becomes really one of the focal points. Like, you know, is there presence in this moment?

You know? Am I present with you? You know? As part of this macroevolution of what I sense is happening to men to men and what it means to be a man. And and reclaiming, like, our power and reclaiming our power, but not the way we've been trained because society feeds off of this hierarchical system of domination.

But the power that is in alignment with your interconnectedness to your heart and your heart interconnected to the earth, Like, being reconnected to something greater than yourself that you're a part of, not this esoteric thing that's outside of you that you need interpreters to understand. And it's just like, no, man. Like, no. Like, no. We're done with that system.

Right? So I think it's a reclamation on multiple levels. Like, individually as men change, the collective begins to change. And the paradigm that's coming into being is more of a surrounded circle sense of power and what that means for you to take your rightful place in that power. You guys running this circle, I'm gonna tell you something, you know this.

This is not really about you. This is about you taking your place and doing what you're called to do. And the moment you make it about you, you lose the plot. And when you lose the plot, you lose the power. Now with power comes great responsibility, therefore, being conscious of wielding power becomes incredibly important.

And if you're wielding it for something greater, then you are in the river of life. And I think that's where masculinity is really headed to, is to really awaken to where we call in the fabric of life and taking our rightful place in doing that and participating in the healing of ourselves and the fabric of of society and life as we know it.

That is it's a beautiful vision. It's something that is something I want to strive for. And I'm striving for every single day. And so I'm curious for anyone listening who's feeling the ache of this wound and who sees that vision and says, I want I want to get there someday. What would you want them to know right now, and what resources are available to them?

Well, I would say, like, just the simple fact of willingness is the open door that you're looking for. And then the next step is to take action because nothing happens in your like, just thinking about it. Like, take action. Go to a men's circle. Like, literally show up.

And if you go to a circle that you don't like, go to another one.

Yeah. Keep looking. Keep

looking. Mhmm. Right? Keep looking for your people. You're gonna find people that are your people, that speak your vernacular, right, and that that you feel at home with, you know, and it may take a few times before you orient to that.

And just know that the work is internal. Like, the answers come first from starting to look within yourself and having an honest assessment about what you're seeing. And, usually, having other men reflect back to you how you show up in the world is part of that process. So the lone wolf is just not going to get there. No.

It's not going to it's not going to be a part of this evolution. It's just not. It can it can it can exist. It just won't join the party.

Well, so, I mean, there are lots of men's groups that exist. Obviously, there's the circle here in Provincetown that Eric and I both run. You have your weekly circle online at embodiedmasculine.com. You're also doing a workshop around this very topic in July.

We are.

Yeah. We are.

A free workshop. So, yeah, a free event. So I'm I'm putting together because it's really it's this is really close to my heart. It's really close to my heart. I really, really know the pain of isolation in this space and the and the hypervigilance and and the and the protectionism around that wound and and and the projections of it and how it hurts people that I love.

You know? And so I this this healing the father wound event in July is meaningful to me. It's meaningful to me. Yes. They you know, people can we'll have it's open registration, and you just register.

You'll get an email with a preparation letter and and Zoom link, and it's a three hour event. And I think it'll be a really great space for all of this exploration.

They can go to they can go to embodiedmasculine.com to find that information and to register. Is that right?

Yeah. Yeah. Under you just hover over offerings, and it's under workshops. And that's the first item to item down.

Right. It's a really tremendous offering to be able to bring to the world. It's available online As long as you have an Internet connection and a willingness to show up, you can participate. And I think that accessibility is so critical when we're dealing with such a difficult wound like this that shows up in so many ways around trust and and judgment and whether or not I belong to something or can I even be in that space and just the openness to welcome people in as they are, like, let's do this work, is really, really beautiful? So thank you for offering it.

Yeah. Thank you for those kind words. Yeah. And I think it's it speaks to the willingness, like I said. If you have a willingness to take a step forward, You know?

And, you know, we'll have you know, we'll we'll be using journeying as part of the work. We'll we'll have ritual as part of the work, it'll be it'll be a thing. It'll be meaningful.

Well, with that, I'm feeling very complete. We'll do round robin. Tim, how are you feeling?

I feel complete. And, Demir?

I do as well. I feel complete.

Well, thank you so much. Tim, will you take us out?

I will. Let's close our eyes and take a deep inhale through the nose. Soft exhale through the mouth. And it is with deep appreciation and gratitude for any insights, awarenesses, or understandings that we may have gained in this sacred shared space of brotherhood that we now release the archetypes and the spirits that we called in. And with these words are containers open but not broken.

Uh-huh.