Meeting Your Edge: How Men’s Work Helps You Push Through

Welcome to The Circle, a queer men's conversation about men's work, men's embodiment practice, men's spirituality, and men's personal growth with an emphasis on how queer men can participate, benefit, serve, and lead in these spaces. My name is Timothy Bish.

My name is Eric Bomyea. Welcome back to the circle, the podcast for queer men's embodiment. Today, we're talking about something every man faces, his edge. The edge is where challenge and discomfort meet growth. And in men's work, it's a space where true transformation happens.

Today, we explore what it means to meet and push past your edge and how these moments can shape the man you become. Tim, are you ready to dive in?

I am.

Alright. So, Tim, as a facilitator, you've led many men through the process of finding and meeting their edge. But what is an edge?

An edge is a limit. An edge is a boundary. It is an awareness of a capacity. It is the place, the farthest place we can go in any particular situation and maintain our grounded, steady presence. It is the line over which if we step, we can then start to crumble, lose our composure, fall into bad habit, you know, due to overwhelm.

And so they are present in so many areas of our life. They are different. So my edge in my work life and my edge in my relationships may be quite different. And so having an awareness of, of all the edges or as many edges as we can and, and how they impact us at any particular moment is a really powerful thing. Because then we can understand when we are getting to our limit, getting to our capacity, getting to a place where I can't reasonably hold on to this anymore and be the the fullest, most grounded version of myself.

I might then start to break down. So it's not it's not it's a it's a living thing that that ebbs and flows, and and we have many of them. And so the knowledge of that. Mhmm.

And so what I'm hearing is that it just can show up also in different ways. They can show up mentally, emotionally, physically. Could you talk a little bit about what it means to meet your edge in each of these areas?

Yeah. So, you know, an example for people who who work out, you can imagine, starting a workout and having to choose a weight that you that is challenging, but that you can manage. So on your first workout, chances are you're not going to do a £55 dumbbell bicep curl. You're going to start somewhere and you have to kind of figure out where that edge is and then you work there until you get stronger and stronger and stronger. If you were to pick up something that was way beyond your capacity, that is the place where you might either start to fall into frustration.

Like, well, why can't I lift this or what's the matter with me? Or in this example, injury. Injury to self and injury to like those around you. So that's one example. And then we can think about all the different ways we might meet an edge.

So that's a physical example. And then how do you feel when you are confronted by your primary partner and they are hurt because of something that you do? They're, they're each of us will have an edge there too on how much that we can hold without taking it personally, how much we can stay present without, crumbling in the face of what might feel like big emotion. And so if we think about almost every area of our life, we can start to find, oh, well, this is how and where I meet my edge or what it might look like.

Yeah. On the the physical example, I've had that happen a couple of times, yoga in particular. When I first started practicing, I would be in a group situation, and I would, you know, surround myself with these other practitioners who I just I thought were, like, so incredible and were, you know, so flexible in doing the the poses the most. And I got

The poses the most. I like the most. Yeah.

And I got in my own head and my own, like, competition took over. And there were several occasions that I, like, blew past my physical edge. And I injured myself. I got to a place where, like, I was sustaining injuries from, you know, going too deeply into postures and poses, that my body just wasn't ready for yet. And I've had to, like, really pull back.

And, it took me a while before I could enter into public yoga classes again. I really had to sit with my own practice for quite a while to understand what my my limitations were and where my body felt most comfortable and natural and taking ownership of that and really starting to then be able to expose myself again to public classes with my competitive side a little bit more checked.

Ego and competition are going to want to ignore the edge and they're going to prioritize, how it looks, how it compares, the outside perspective. I often say in yoga asana classes, it's a very, advanced practice to honor where you're at. And, you know, I've had the experience where, oh, I can do that posture. I've been practicing yoga asana for about 20 years. I can do that posture and that person's doing it next to me and I can feel that desire to be like, well, I, I want to do it too.

Maybe I just want to do it or maybe I want there's that ego part of me that like, I want them to know I can do it. But then I think, but maybe maybe today my body is telling me that it isn't of greatest service. And then the real work and a piece of yoga is honoring that and saying, okay, it doesn't matter if that person thinks I have a good wheel pose, for example. You know, fill in the blank, handstand, split, doesn't matter. What matters is if I'm being, you know, practicing integrity with myself and staying focused on getting to my edge.

So it's interesting because this is a great example of this particular instance, the edge changed. So so, you know, when we see avid yoga asana practitioners, we often think of these people who can wrap themselves into pretzels, who are very flexible and who, you know, can stand on their heads and, you know. But one of the reasons that practice progresses is because they're continually looking for their edge and then trying to work there. And the work at their edge is alignment, breath, intention. So it isn't really about, you know, how wrapped they are.

It's about like wrapping to get to their edge. And so this example where on this day, sometimes my edge is a little closer. I I can't go as far and then I have to honor that edge.

And that's based on a lot of factors that could be what you did the day before, what you did prior. What is your capacity in that moment to hold that edge? And that that means that that could be a moving target, and it's not always gonna be the same. And so being mindful and aware of what an edge feels like. Right?

And and as you're approaching it and then how do you handle yourself in how?

Well, this is why practice is so important because the more we keep coming back, the more we'll start to understand the ebbing and flowing of our edge in any given moment. So it's highly unlikely that our edge is gonna swing wildly. Right? To be you know, one day I'm super good at yoga. I feel great in it and then the next day I absolutely can't do it.

Probably not that. Unless you've sustained an injury

or something that, like, happens that changes your ability.

But that that would be a totally different yeah. It would be more like the the way that my body feels today. It can be this more incremental to be like, oh, I can only do half wheel today if I'm going to honor where my body is. And then other days where I can not only can I do full wheel, I can do full wheel variations? If we take it to a different example, a nonphysical example, you know, you have moments when your primary partner comes in, they want to talk to you and some days, you know, you can hold it, you can hear it, you can, without taking it personally, without feeling like a failure or going into story and all of that other stuff.

And other times you can't. So if you think about a day when, oh, I got, I didn't get a great sleep last night. I went to work, it was super busy. I had a contentious conversation with a colleague or my, you know, boss or got home, I drove home through traffic, you know, it was really intense. And then that same conversation.

And you might, you might have a different capacity. You might not be able to hold it with as much skill, presence or grace as you might otherwise. The recognition of that is powerful because then you can communicate that prior to the beginning, rather than being in the situation and then being blown past your edge and then into reaction, into bad habit, into, you know,

those sorts of things. So, yeah, I've I've got an example that happened over the summer with you actually where we we we were no. We were at a show and, our our drink order was coming and I don't drink. And the, 1st sip that I had, I was like, oh, this is tequila. And it started to trigger me and send me.

And I was about to, like, just like fully collapse. And I actually use some of the practices that we do in embodiment circle, and I excused myself. And I went outside and I started shaking and just, like, shook it off. I, like, started jumping up and down. I started, like, poof, horsey living and just, like, getting it out.

And so I think that I wanna transition into other practices that we do and kind of talking through, like, how do men's work practices address these edges and how do they help us define and meet them?

They provide us an opportunity to have an experience of our edge. And some of that, if we go back to the physical, if we're doing a posture practice like chi generator, we put ourselves in a challenging position and then we work with breath and visualization in that and the challenge starts to accumulate. Now you and I have both been in Chi Generator, you know, many times and together and, you know, well, the first minute or 2 and then minute 3, minute 4, depending on how much you've practiced and

Minute 7,

minute 8. Minute 7, minute 8. Yeah. You get to, you know, minute minute 12 and you're like, oh, I'm really I'm really having to like focus and, you know, be really present. These are opportunities to practice those things at your edge.

And the the men's workspace in these practice sessions allow a container where I get to work there and I get to, I get to go past and then potentially have to break and reset. And there's value there too. I mean, like, okay, well, that's what it looks like. So in the real world, when you get blown past your edge, you're not suddenly in completely uncharted territory. You're like, oh, I've been here before.

So as you you're a beautiful example. I've practiced this enough. I need to step aside, have a moment alone. I'm gonna bring in some practices that worked for you. So, you know, another person might choose other practices, but something that served and then come back.

It wasn't totally brand new. I think it had it been brand new or in moments for people where that is brand new, that's when we're most likely to completely collapse. Because I don't know what to do. I've not been here before.

I had the familiarity of bodily sensation of what does it feel like to be in that moment of, like, blowing past my edge. And I was like, woah. I've been here before, and I have a little bit of of tooling right now to help pull me back so that I didn't fully collapse. I didn't, you know, take that second swig and who knows what would have happened if I would have continued that night.

Sure. And so the the movement practices are pretty obvious example because you can feel physical muscular fatigue just like if we were at the gym holding a plank, or, or doing a, like a static hang and you're like, oh, it just gets increasingly harder and harder. And how long can you keep it? We also use breath though. And breath, depending on the practice, and I've done some intense practices, you can start to feel a lot of physical sensation.

Sometimes it can feel overwhelming. Moments where it can feel really panicky. And practicing, staying connected to your, to your, to your visualization, to your presence. These are moments where, okay, well now when I experience panic in the world, I've I've had a taste of it in a safe space.

Yeah. On that, some so some of these more intense practices, sometimes what I I find that I feel in those moments is, like, fear. I often experience fear when I start to approach an edge where I'm like, I'm really reluctant to even go there, where I I see it. I see it coming. And I'm like, I I don't even wanna, like, I don't even wanna inch towards it.

I'm like, I've I've either been there before. I recognize, and I'm just like, I'm not ready to go to my edge. So, you know, how can men begin to recognize and move through things like that that may prevent them from even getting to that edge? And how do we kind of, like, encourage to to go there?

Yeah. I think it's I think it's a lot about the community. I think it's about the community of men around you, then your teachers, that help support you. Because here's the truth. The truth is we all have edges and we're all gonna meet them.

We don't want to. I I wish, you know, we've had days where, oh, everything went great today. But we've also everyone listening to this podcast will have had days where, oh, that thing popped up. I didn't know it was coming. It was super uncomfortable.

And so when we get into these communities, we have an opportunity to say, listen, the reason we do it is because they're unavoidable. The experience of being pushed to our edge or even having something or someone trying to push us beyond our edge is unavoidable because of the the nature of our life and our world. So the more we the more we walk up to the edge and walk back, walk up to the edge and walk back. I get the image in my mind right now are those beautiful cliffs in, in Ireland. Right?

And it's like, well, the the more you kind of go close in the back away, go close, back away, the the more you start to understand what it is. Right?

And I had similar experience, going up to the Eiffel Tower or even that, like, the Empire State Building or the monument here in Provincetown where, like, I do not like heights. I get very trepidatious, which is interesting because I actually love roller coasters.

Mhmm.

Because they're fast, and I feel like, oh, I'm not in control at all. And that kinda, like, allows me to rest. So I'm like, whoo. Here we go. But if there's this more of, like, a static moment, like a monument or some big building, I have to do that same thing.

Or I, like, I kinda, like, peer over. I'm like, okay. And I take a step, and I'm like, okay. I can be here for a second, then I have to inch my way back. And then I like build myself back up and I go and I meet that literal physical edge again.

Right. And if we think about it from a sports perspective or, you know, I was a professional dancer and when we would learn some of the more advanced skills or elements, we'd have to try it over and over. And oftentimes they wouldn't go well. And sometimes you would slip or sometimes you would fall. And in the slipping or falling is information.

And so when we think about applying this to our life, the more times I've tried and done too much or not done enough, and fallen, you know, and then and then you're like, oh, I'm I'm finding that I'm becoming more successful. The more I practice, like my success rate is going up and up and up. Now we take that same principle and apply it to deep, meaningful conversations with the people in our life that we care about and increasing our success with how we can meet them, how we can hear them, how we can hold them or how we can share with them. What an unbelievable, powerful thing to have in our life. And I would argue that a lot of us aren't doing this.

And so when I hear, when I'm talking to my clients or just friends, when I hear about some of the miscommunications that happen, I often think, oh, well this person wasn't aware of their edge, but also their partner wasn't aware of their partner's edge. So in inherent in this practice is then, oh, I start to tell you, the people I care about, where my limits are currently as an empowerment. This is what I can do and this is what I cannot do. And creating communication from that very honest, authentic place, which can be tricky sometimes, especially for men when they don't want to admit that they can't do something.

I actually have an example of, of of learning. So with a a friend, I had come back from my silent meditation retreat, and he and I were talking, and I did not have the capacity to hold a story that he was telling me. It was emotionally charged. It had a lot of, like, energy to it, and I just I was tapped out. I did not.

I couldn't hold space for him. I couldn't actually listen to him, and I blew past my edge, and I did not handle myself skillfully. And we had to have a conversation about it a couple days later to, like, resolve it and kind of, you know, patch some things back together. We had to take some space and, you know, kind of give each other that silence to to process things. And then once we we did patch it up, everything was great.

And then I came back from the men's retreat that we were just on, and I was having a a conversation with the same person. And I actually had to use my awareness and say, hey, I'm at my capacity right now, and I can't hold this conversation. So instead of me blowing past my edge, I was able to reference back to a previous situation in which I had understand how it felt in my body, plus use some of my new learnings and sensitivities from retreat to then be able to communicate in real time that I'm just not here right now. Like, I love you. I appreciate you.

I respect you, but I can't be where you need me to be right now. And so, like, do you mind if we just, like, walk in silence?

Well and what a powerful thing because then even if there is some mild discomfort in that moment of not being able to finish his story or their story. I don't know who this person was. Their story, still preferable to having a blow up

or having He was so happy to hear it. He's like, thank you. He's like, I will gladly walk in silence with you. Right? Like like, rather than have you, like, fake that you're listening or that you can even handle this.

Like, I would much rather just be with you where you're at. And he was so appreciative and respectful of that. And I think that's just a learning for everyone is that, like, when we communicate what's truly alive in us authentically, most of the time people are going to respond very favorably to it rather than if we if we're trying to, like, put on a front or we're trying to do something beyond our capabilities. Right? Like, just be honest with where you're at.

Because we can all relate to it. We've all

been in that place where I am tired or I'm whatever and I and I can't do this right now. We've all been there. So if you can speak to it from a heart open to compassionate place, then I think most of the time people are gonna be really appreciative. And then there are other skills that you can add in too. Like, well, can we pick this up and have this conversation tomorrow?

Or could we could we find a time in the next 36 hours just to sit down and have this conversation? That becomes like very empowered communication where we each get to decide and then meet each other, you know, with the the with the everything stacked in our favor to the best of our ability.

Being able to bring in conscious clarity, communicating conscious clarity to others is such a gift. Right? To be able to say, like, hey. This is this is where I'm at, and I wanna and I wanna bring that clarity to you and help you experience what I'm experiencing, and then we can go from there.

Well, you know, it's interesting because it happens so frequently in couples counseling. I hear it, when I was in couples counseling and, you know, with my friends who have been in it, this this desire well, not even desire maybe, but this tendency for us to want people to mind read. And I think it really makes sense to me. This I I assume that I'm speaking for myself now. I assume that people experience the world the way I experience it.

And so when they do things or don't do things, I immediately am like, well, if I did that or didn't do that, it would mean this. And as I get older, and of course I think you know too, that isn't true. People are having a wide array of experiences. And so this understanding of our edge and the communicate the attempt to communicate about our edge isn't just a practice of knowing what we're capable of doing. It's a practice of remembering the wide array of experience that is capable in any one moment and allowing us to keep that in, in our, in our minds as we navigate our life and challenge.

So, oh, that person may not, may not be experiencing this. When they tell me what their edges are, it gives me an insight into what it is they are experiencing. Oh, okay. This is why when we talk about boundaries, and edges are a kind of boundary. I think a lot of people think boundaries are this, you know, 2 hands up, like fucking stop, back off kind of moment.

And you and I have discussed they can be that. But they're so often an empowerment, empowering people with information so that they can meet you in a more skillful way and so that you can meet them in a more skillful way. And so I don't know if I've said this on this podcast before or not, but I said no one's mad at the line between Pennsylvania and Ohio. No one's mad about it. Right?

It helps us to know where we're at. That's all it does. Same idea. When I know where my line is, I can tell people and then they can meet me or choose to not meet me. But it can happen in a, in a conscious way rather than this reactive, unconscious, typically triggered or, emotionally volatile way.

Very rarely do those moments and in ways that we would want them to, they tend to be a little tricky. Yeah. Thank you.

So what I loved about some of the examples that we've shared is that, you know, there's there's sometimes a a physical boundary. Sometimes it's an emotional boundary. Some of the examples we we shared about, like, you know, myself going to the the edge of a building, right, or the monument or that cliff. And I can see that physical edge, and it kinda creates that container. I know that I can go towards it back off, go towards it back off.

Talk about couples counseling that also is like a kind of a container that kind of, like, you know, holds the space and, like, allows you to be able to express certain things and, you know, go through the motion. So I'm interested, like, men circles, embodiment circles, they can offer a powerful support in the moment when men are right at their edge, so it creates that container. And so what it is about the collective space that helps men push through what they wouldn't be able to on their own?

I think part of it is the shared experience, the shared experience of having an edge and realizing, oh, I'm not alone. Because I think the male experience is often from what I've heard and my own personal experience, it feels very lonely. Sometimes it feels like I'm the only person who feels like this. And then you are in a group of men, you realize, oh, no. Like every I think there was a moment in retreat where someone voiced feeling self conscious and they were like, well, who else has that feeling?

And everyone raised their hand. Right? You're like, oh, okay. So that doesn't mean that whatever you're feeling isn't still uncomfortable, but you're like, I'm not alone.

Right. You can be witnessed in it and you can rest in the fact that, like, this is a shared experience.

Totally. And then most of the men's workspaces that I'm in have a, an array of men. Meaning, from different places, different life experiences, but also with different some different amounts of practice under their belt. And so then you have this opportunity to have some of the men who have been doing it longer talk about how it is of benefit. Oh, when I when I continue through this practice, when I continue to refine my own understanding of my edge and then ultimately begin to expand my capacity, this these are all the ways it benefits.

So then that man can step up to a man who might be newer or, needing a little bit more context and say, brother, like my life has transformed. My conversation or communication has transformed because this nuanced understanding that comes from practice.

Yeah. There's a beautiful support that happens, and even a little bit of accountability where, like, you know, it's you you kind of are being witnessed by other men. Other men are stepping in in in mentorship, you know, roles where it's like, oh, like, you kind of like feel that support and you start to be like, oh, I I have the the safety that I need to to go a little bit further. And this actually happened to me on retreat where I hit an edge opening night and flew past it. Didn't even know it existed.

I was, triggered in one of the practices, that almost resulted in me backing completely out of the retreat. And I had, the support of yourself and several other, brothers and folks in leadership, to really help bring me back. And then later on in the retreat, you and I were in practice and I was able to, through that support, actually get back to that edge and work with it and play with it a little bit more and be way more supported and safe in that environment to like actually start working it.

Your story is a good one because it illustrates the importance of having a safe container so that when you do blow past your edge, you can have the experience of recognizing it coming back without, without necessarily feeling like you're completely alone. So that, that desire, we've all had that desire of, I feel totally overwhelmed and what I want to do right now is run away. And then if you're standing with other men who have been there before and they can, they can reassure you there is benefit in staying and this is what it'll look like and, you know, and just kind of hold that, That's a really important life skill because there are going to be moments when we get pushed past our edge, maybe an edge that we were aware of, but the circumstance came quickly or overwhelming. And sometimes it's an edge you don't even know about. Those exist.

Yeah. And it reveals so much about a person. That experience revealed so much about myself. There were subconscious fears that I wasn't even aware of that bubbled up to the surface in that practice. And that's what pushed me past that edge.

And then now being able to, like, give a name to that and to actually be able to, like, talk through and, like, what happened, I am able to like understand a little bit more about myself and, you know, getting a little bit more comfortable with exploring those areas of my life, those those those fears that I didn't know were there or those mistrust in my case, the mistrust of of men, I didn't realize how deep that was.

Mhmm.

And then all of a sudden now I I have that that knowledge and I'm able to, like, work with it. So I'm understanding more about myself.

So you mentioned roller coasters earlier in our in in this episode and I want to bring it back up because I also love roller coasters. I love them a lot. And if you look at my Instagram, one of the things I'm fed most are these point of view roller coaster videos. I just really, really love them. But, some things have changed in my life and I've always been a little bit claustrophobic.

But after, you know, going through my brain surgery and I got stuck in an MRI machine and had a pretty scary thing, I've learned now that I I start to feel very claustrophobic. And so there are there are certain kinds of, restraining apparati. I don't know if that's how you apparatuses, that I cannot I can't do. So I can't do the over the shoulder, restraint. That is pretty common, especially on older older coasters.

Or anything that's gonna go upside down.

No. No. For me, I can go upside down. Over the shoulder? Well, it's so I I can go upside down, meaning I'm not afraid to go upside down.

What I can't do is have the over the shoulder because it makes me feel trapped. It's the claustrophobia, not the fear of the coaster.

That that's what I meant. It was that, like, most often roller coasters that go upside down have over the shoulder.

Well, now they've done so VelociCoaster and some other things, they do have that it comes over, but it's still just a a lap, restraint.

Oh, got it.

So your arms are still more free. Like you don't have that same sort of, sense of claustrophobia. But now it doesn't matter because I'm aware that I'm being locked into a thing. So it's tricky for me. But the whole point is a piece of information, that I became aware of and then I make I'm able to make some choices so that I'm choosing before I'm in panic.

And that is more conscious, more comfortable than trying to make conscious choices when you're in the full panic, when you're in the full trigger. So this is, you know, when I go to amusement parks now, I know what I can enjoy and what I can enjoy.

Right. There's a delicate balance between pushing through and knowing when to respect your limits and the the self awareness of, like, knowing them. So, like, how do you discern between the 2? Right? So, like, in in that moment where it's like, you know, like, you can be aware of it that it's coming and then the the moment where you're like, you're not aware.

So how do you like?

Yeah. I think I think this is why we go into safe containers and we continue to return to these practices so that we get more and more awareness of what it is we need. I'll go back to, I was at, Universal Studios and this there was this ride that I had been on before, and I was thinking about going on it again and kind of pushing through. I was like, it's a it's a limit for me. It's like an edge for me, a really, really big edge.

Do I wanna push through or not? And I I went inward and I kinda felt into myself and like, how much do I want this? How you know? And decided, you know what? Actually, I don't think this is worth it.

It's a fun ride, but not a super fun ride. And I'm just I I was checking my own capacity. Like, I feel a little tired right now. I don't wanna I don't wanna risk it. But wouldn't you know?

So I'm look looking around the gift shop waiting for Brian to finish his ride. I'm like, you know, this is taking kind of a long time. Like, what's going on? Well, it turns out, while he was on the ride, the whole ride shut down and was in this, like, I don't know, car, like, kind of like a roller coaster. But the way that it moved, like, full shoulder restraints, laying, on on his back face up when all the lights came on.

I would have strongly, strongly disliked that. That's one way to I would have based off

of what you talked about earlier. That's an understatement.

Yeah. I would have I would have very much and I was so grateful that I didn't that I didn't push myself. But so I in that example, I probably got a little bit lucky. I was trusting I looked inside to how I was feeling. But I think through practice, through coming back over and over, you can start to get more and more.

So it's not an exact science. Like I think you can make a conscious decision and have it not be right all the time. But the more you practice, the closer and closer you're gonna get to, this is probably good for me right now or it's not.

Yeah. It's learning to differentiate between an edge that needs pushing through and one that signals rest or self care. And, you know, think go back to our episode on intuition. Like, sometimes you just gotta listen to yourself. Right?

You might not know why you know. You just know that, like, this is a a place where I need to back off and I actually just need to rest. Or I just know that like, oh, I can I can handle it and go through it?

I think it's also, you know, contextual about purpose mission priority. Do I need to push myself to go on a roller coaster? How, how important is that to me? But do I need to push myself to be a clear communicator with my family? Probably.

And if and if and if things are breaking excuse me. Excuse me. If things are breaking because my communication isn't where it needs to be, then that feels a moment where, oh, I have to I have to push this edge. I still have to do it consciously. It's not so it's no 0 to 60.

Right? Then it becomes a practice where I'm like, I have to push it mindfully, little by little, mindfully, mindfully, mindfully, and not and not try to blow past it and fix it in one day. But the priority, well, how important is it? How how much do we need it?

Right. The the priorities may be different, but I would argue that actually, challenging yourself and pushing through your boundaries in other ways. So the roller coaster, right? Like, the more often you're able to do something like that, chances are that may actually inform the communication boundary and edge that you might be experiencing or somebody might be experiencing. So it's like where we play with 1 and we become more comfortable with it, whether that's physically, emotionally, mentally, physically, emotionally, or mentally, then we can take that into others as well.

So sometimes, like, you know, for me, it might be, like, maybe I'm just in a place where I need to practice my edge in a gentle yoga practice. And the more that I do that, the more that I start to meet physical edge and I can rest in a little bit of that discomfort and know where my my limits are and can to work gently through that. I can then take that into something that's more advanced or something that's more, you know, extreme for me. And that could be in my communication or, you know, something emotionally.

Yeah, I think I think what I'm hearing you say is this crossover impact that it can have where getting to an edge in my physical body, like in your example of a yoga asana class and being in a place where it's hard to balance and challenging in a variety of ways and practice breathing there and staying focused there and grounded there can then translate into, well, can I be as focused? Can I take that focus, that presence and apply it to my family, apply it to my job, apply it to my pursuits or my hobbies? And I think the answer is

yes. Absolutely. So let's get tactical as we, head into wrapping up. Like, can you share some of the embodiment and breath work techniques that help men men to stay present at their edge?

Yeah. So we we referenced one already, which is a chi generator, like a Qigong horse stance. And the longer you stay in it, the more the pressure accumulates. There are some really powerful breath practices. I personally find, practices where we have a lot of breath retention, in or out can sometimes be challenging, especially when you're holding a count.

Meaning I'm I have to hold my breath out for a count of 16 or for 90 seconds or, you know, something like that. And feeling that process of accumulated pressure, how how it starts to get a little bit more intense, how you can start to feel yourself kind of fighting for it, is an education in what we do when the pressure starts to land on us. And then again, the more awareness we have of that, the more skill we can bring to when that same thing happens, but it's our boss handing us a deadline that we don't think we can, you know, achieve successfully.

Right. In those breath work practices, I sometimes encounter panic and fear. Mhmm. And over time, what I've learned to do is trust. I trust my body.

I trust the container that I'm in that, like, I can go a little deeper and start to to push myself more and more and more so that in my other parts of my life where panic and fear may set in, I know that, like, I can I can handle it? So I think, like, you know, that's happened to me before where the boss comes in and it's like completely changes things around. And if I hadn't been doing this work and I hadn't been practicing and and training my nervous system, I probably would have gone into a very reactive place. But instead, I'm able to, like, take a quick pause and respond. And that is to me, you know, the the benefit of of this type of work.

Yeah. And I think we see it a lot in sports. It feels really normalized there. Oh, you're gonna try a new skill. And, you know, I'm I'm gonna use diving as an example.

You try a new skill and you over rotate and then you you kind of belly flop or do something that is very uncomfortable. And then recognizing, okay, so that's what that felt like. But I've been here before and now I can take that information and try to try to apply it. But there is a little bit of fear. Well, what if it happens again?

And so the more you you practice, you're like, oh, okay. Well, I've been here before. I know I know that it's okay and, you know, that I have support and I have my coach and I have my teammates and I have, you know, and and we start to learn to lean on those things. So, you know, another thing about edges that we haven't talked about so much is, it's a reminder that even though we each have individual edges, the working with them and the working through them, can be very much a community, you know, satsang based endeavor. I lean on my brothers when I'm getting to my edge.

I I have them listen to me. I get their feedback or their insights or their reflections and, take that as part of my practice when I inevitably have

to try again. Absolutely. And going back to my first example of, like, the yoga practice where I was really in a competitive mindset, I've now been able to enter into these men's spaces where I'm not competing with them, for like who can hold the deepest, lowest, longest chi generator. It's more like I'm now building off of them and and using their support and like listening to, both my myself and them, like, maybe letting out some steam through noise and sounds. Right?

We are kind of, like, motivating each other. It's not that we're competing now, but we're motivating each other and and and helping each other kinda stay in that that moment in that pocket of like, okay. I'm at at my edge. And there are other people that are also at their edge and we're in it together and we're here to support each other through it.

And and giving some permission. So, you know, you're talking about the chi generator practice, which can be very intense. Sometimes we do that in a circle or sometimes we'll do it facing another brother. And what I've noticed is giving some permission to try things we might not normally try. So for for the listeners, you know, in these men's work spaces, sometimes it can get a little primal.

And so oftentimes, what will happen in a Qi generator if you're holding it for a long time is facial expressions sort of like screaming or growling, sticking the tongue out, like kind of this these manners of moving some of that energy. And I have found from my own personal experience and observing others, sometimes people need a little permission to try something else. It's like, oh, I probably would not have tried that thing if I didn't see that man doing it or that man doing it. But now they they did do it and so then I tried it and then I had the experience of what that was. And so it's just more information, more experience about, well, what can I do when I get to my edge so that I can still participate consciously?

I think I mentioned, I use these tools in my life even the, even in moments when it might feel a little bit wacky. Because I know that it will help me engage and participate in ways that are of greatest service. So occasionally I will shake, if something's pretty big, I usually save shaking for like a really big thing, because it can look a little bit wild, you know, in, in, in real life. I use a lot of breath and a lot of breath holds that people don't even necessarily know I'm doing, because I'm, oh, I can feel this thing bubbling up. And I know if I start to breathe in this conscious way, I'm less likely to roll down this old neural pathway of of trigger and anger or sadness or, you know, and I can be a little bit more clear eyed.

So the practices aren't just then in safe spaces. I think we learn them and go really deep in those places so that we can be held and then take them into your life. You're going to meet your edge, you know, walking down the street, or in a zoom call, but what can you do then? So another big piece of this work that I think is so important is that it is life work. And so we should, we should bring it into our life.

Yeah, that's, you know, this whole conversation about meeting edge is is so powerful because it is such a universal experience. Everybody has them.

Everybody. Everybody. Like like everybody. And so if you're listening right now and you're like, I don't have an edge. Yes.

You do. Yes. You do. Yes. You do.

And, and they're not anything to be ashamed of. They are things we can work with. They are things we can potentially expand. We can increase our capacity in any number of ways, especially if we want to. But we all have them.

Everyone has them. And the more we're aware of it, the more powerful we are. It's, it's a little bit like a really important skill. I can tell you where my edge is. I can even, if I, if we have good communication, I can even start to feel into where I think your edge is and have robust communication around that so that we're kind of honoring each other.

It's really powerful. So everyone's got an edge and the more you know about it, the more power you have. The more power you have to live the way you wanna live.

Absolutely. Knowledge is power. Knowledge of self and being able to communicate that to others, that is it really is a powerful, powerful thing and and beautiful to acknowledge and to work with and to be able to do that, you know, in places that support, you know, that work. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Do you have any final thoughts for our listeners on how men can embrace their edge rather than fear it?

Yeah. I just wanna you know, this this saying around the yoga community was often like, you know, take your yoga off the mat, take your yoga off the mat. And that's really what we're talking about. So when we talk about men's embodiment practice in these spaces and these retreats, these are opportunities for deep safe practice, but the intention is for it to move into your life. And the hope is that every man gains insight and experience at these, in these experiences and in these retreats or in these workshops or classes or circles and then they take it with them.

And so it's, it's very that. It's like it doesn't just exist in the moment that you're doing it. It should come with you. That has been my experience. It comes with me.

And I would like to think that more often than not, I am successful in utilizing some tools so I can be more conscious and less reactive. I'm not always it's not, you know, it's not a perfect, I don't think anyone's doing it perfectly. But at the very minimum, when I when I do some version of what feels like a less skillful, reaction or manner of engagement, I'm also quick to recognize it and to then learn from it too. So power, power, power. All this learning and experience is power.

So take your take your practice into your life and increase your ability to live the life you wanna live.

Right. It's not a perfect. It's a practice.

It's not a perfect. It's a practice.

That's right. Beautifully said. Thank you so much. I feel very complete today. As do I.

Thank you so much for joining us here in the circle. And as we leave now, I wish you brotherhood, connection, authenticity, vulnerability, safety, and love. And with these words, our container is open but not broken. If you'd like to stay connected to us between episodes, please follow us on Instagram at queermensembodiment. Like, subscribe, rate, and review wherever you find podcasts.

We'll see you again soon.