Men’s Retreat Recap: Showing Up Powerfully as a Queer Man

Welcome to The Circle. A queer men's conversation about men's work, men's embodiment practice, men's spirituality, and men's personal growth with an emphasis on how queer men can participate, benefit, serve, and lead in these spaces. My name is Timothy Bish.

My name is Eric Bomyea. Welcome back to The Circle, the podcast for queer men's embodiment. In this episode, Tim and I are recapping our recent men's retreat. For me, it was my first time, and for Tim, his 8th. We'll dive into what it means to show up powerfully in spaces like these, especially as queer men, and talk about the challenges, breakthroughs, and takeaways from the retreat.

Tim, are you ready to go all in?

I'm ready and all in.

Alright. Let's go. So, Tim, you've attended 8 retreats now, and this was my first. Can you start by explaining to our listeners what a men's embodiment retreat is all about and what typically happens at these gatherings?

Yes. There are a few different kinds of retreats that I have attended with the organization that we were, going on the retreat with, Embodied Masculine. And the general idea behind the retreats are the same though, which is like bringing a group of men together in a concentrated place for a time and a space. We kind of get out of the ordinary. We get out of the mundane.

We step out of the world in a way and come into a place where the intention is that we can start to become conscious more. Ideally, the whole time. Conscious how we eat, conscious how we walk, how we gather, what we do, and really focus on what we're doing in the present moment and the community and the group that we're with rather than be inundated with the distractions of the world. And in that, there are a variety of practices. A lot of them are the embodiment practices that we've been talking about on this podcast.

So we use movement, breath, sound, visualization, attention, and that can look like something very physical, you know, chi generator, ego eradicator. It can be breath practices, Kapalabhati, bastrika, holotropic. It can be making sounds whether the sound is a guttural sort of improved reaction to something else, or it can be chanting mantra or singing. We can do guided meditations and visualizations, shamanic journeys. But but all of it is in service to the idea that we are trying to step out of the ordinary and have a different experience of ourselves, create the environment into which we can have that different experience and then learn from it.

Get an insight, get an experience, have a have a access to an emotional state or a sensational state. And then take that information with us back into the world, back to our families, back to our work, back to our communities. And my experience has been then generally stepping back into the world, feeling a little more grounded, a little bit clearer about who I'll speak for myself, who I am, what I want to do. It's a little bit like, you're on a long car trip and you have to stop. You pull over, you go to the bathroom, you get a bite to eat, you fill the tank.

These retreats feel like that. It's like a it's like a rest stop reminds me to get clear about where I'm going and gives me the things I need to go there consciously.

Good reminder of of who you are and it's also an opportunity to discover new parts of yourself or reawaken parts of yourself that may have been dormant for a long time. And one of the things that I really noticed is that the this retreat was anything but ordinary.

Well, say more. What does that mean? What does that mean?

That when I compare it to my ordinary life, my day to day life, the opportunity to be in this container with a group of 30 plus powerful men, you know, all there for a shared purpose of personal growth, of community building, of developing their skills and their ability to, show powerful in the world. It really helped me to step into that that kind of mentality. And it really became a a daily practice, not just in our our scheduled practices, but from the moment I woke up to the moment I went to bed, there was I was in practice. I was in the retreat. There was opportunities to, deepen my presence practice while I was brushing my teeth, when my cell phone wasn't chiming every 2 seconds.

There were opportunities for me to deeply connect with brothers on this retreat in really beautiful, intimate ways that could be maybe it's just coffee by the fire in the morning.

Mhmm.

And that is not something that's part of my ordinary life. And so I had these extraordinary moments of deep connection and presence while also being able to go deep into some of these practices. And with this opportunity to be away from the mundane world, we also got the opportunity to, like, go deep into these practices. So, for the folks listening, the men's embodiment circle here in Provincetown is typically 75 minutes.

And that includes, you know, an introduction and attention setting and then, deep closing. And so the the pocket that we're in as far as, like, practice goes is usually 45 ish, just 60 minutes depending. And this was an opportunity that some of these practices were 2 hours. They were deep. They were juicy.

We were in. And so it was, yeah, anything but ordinary.

I also think that the retreat creates a much needed sense of safety because you understand if anyone is going to take three and a half days out of their life, leave their work, leave their family, leave their home, pay whatever money it takes to get there, that, you know, not just the tuition, but flights or rental cars or, you know, gas and all of that. That when we arrive, we know that we're in a room full of men who have a shared mission, a shared purpose, a shared intention of growth, introspection, ins like desire for insight, desire for more authenticity in whatever way they they needed or wanted. And so I believe even if you don't know who that man is, I've never met that person. I don't know their name even we've only met once or, you have there is trust. Oh, but they're they're here for the same reason I am.

And so I can relax in the trust of well, I'm doing the work, but so are they. And everyone is all in. So that that safety I think is really important and I think it's very refreshing because in other places you kind of kind of don't necessarily know what brings a person or if they're if they're if they're interested in meeting you in the same way that you want to be met or you know, or bring a certain level like here we know, oh, you're, you've signed up, so chances are you're all in. That doesn't, there have been a few men who've shown up, did not know what they were getting into, and and haven't been there, but for the most part, people who come are all in and there's a safety in that in my experience.

Yeah. There's a shared sense of purpose, the kind of clear goal of, like, why are we here? And then there's also what I found shared values. Like, I think of integrity and what integrity means to me was actually similar to what integrity means to a lot of the men on this retreat. So, I was running point on the retreat, meaning that I helped with coordination, and I helped with, just keeping the schedule tight and making it so that people could, like, navigate between, you know, the different practices where they needed to be and when.

And I also helped check them into their rooms. And when I was checking them into the rooms, I didn't have keys for them, and nobody asked for 1. It was just implied that we could safely or rest safely knowing that we are all men of integrity and that we don't need to lock our doors.

Mhmm. Right?

And so there's something there too that when we're coming in with these shared values, that also creates an enormous amount of safety.

Yeah. I agree with that. Mhmm.

So, again, this was my first re retreat, and I told you a little bit about my experience. And so I'm curious from you. This is your your 8th, and I wanna know how your relationship to these retreats has evolved and what's changed for you over the years.

Oh, I love that question. Thank you. My relationship has really changed because my first retreat, I was a participant. I was in the MWI program with Embodied Masculine.

And What does MWI stand for?

Men's work intensive, and it's through the organization Embodied Masculine with my teacher, Amir Khalighi. And I was doing that 4 month container. It's a personal growth container. The the participants are there for their own personal growth. And at the end of that 4 month program is the retreat.

So it's the culmination of a lot of practice and a lot of teachings. You go to this retreat and then you get a very in-depth experience, which for me was unbelievably powerful. After that, I then joined the facilitator training program. And so the first incarnation of that program had 2 retreats. And that was a little different because then I was being asked as a trainee, excuse me, as a trainee to, facilitate in some at one point and to be a leader, a team leader, and a organizational leader at another point.

It was through that process that then Amir asked me to be the point person. The position you were doing in this last retreat, I did in my in retreat number 4 and 5 for me. But the difference was that I was starting to evolve in the organization. And in addition to being the administrative point, which is essentially what you were doing, I was deepening into my own leadership and starting to help and collaborate with Amir in the creation and deepening of these containers, both the MWI and the transpersonal facilitation training program, the TFTP. And so my role has shifted and shifted and shifted.

And this retreat, is an interesting one because now there were level 1 trainees and there were level 2 trainees and I was the lead assistant. I think of it if you are a fan of Game of Thrones, I was the hand of the king. Right? But I had to practice letting the level 2 and level 1 men do their thing and give them the space to find it their own way and only step in in moments when I knew that they needed help or guidance. And so it was interesting because I got to practice more.

I I got to do more of the practices than I've ever done as a member of leadership, partly because I had to do the practice to give the trainees feedback. And I also had to relinquish some tasks that I would otherwise be occupied doing and allow them to do it. What was interesting for me though was I was still very busy. I felt like I had a lot to do, but some of that doing was glancing and whispering in people's ears and then backing away, like giving them an hour, coming back, checking in.

For, an analogy for folks outside of the Game of Thrones reference, you can also think of it as, like, an organizational structure where it's, like, you've got individual contributors, you've got managers and directors. Right? Even though that in this organization, it really is very horizontal. So I don't wanna, like, I don't wanna have people think that it is also like this hierarchical structure. It's not.

But I think that the analogy helps people to to understand that, you know, there are positions within or there are leadership, roles that get taken on where you really kinda stepped up into a director or above level where you had, you know, kind of oversight, but you had to really step back and allow for your team to do more of the work. And so there were still moments that I was going to you for advice and counsel. Right? But, like, at the end of the day, it's back on me to execute the work.

Totally. It's funny that you bring that up because we go out of our way to talk about not having a hierarchy in these spaces because it's a spiritual space where it's oneness of being. Right? Where we are all equal and I really really believe that. And then there are moments when I'm when I think to myself, but we do need some hierarchy.

We we do need some structure. And if a man has been there like myself for 8 retreats, I'm not higher than you. I'm not better than you, but I I probably have a clearer sense of how we've done it and how we might do it. So it's, it's a funny little dance Mhmm. Because when I would direct people to do things, it wasn't obedience.

It was I'm giving you insight because I've done this before, and it isn't just about the doing well, we learned this at the retreat. It's not just about the doing now. Right? For the listeners, like, when you set up a retreat, if I bring something into the space, like this time, a beautiful tree trunk that we used as, like, part of our altar. If I bring that into the space, chances are I have to take it out.

So when we do the setup, you have to you have to also keep in mind, well, if it took 5 men and a tractor to get that into the room, then it'll likely take at least that to get it out. And the difference will be the breakdown will have 2 hours and the setup had a day. So there was part of me walking around whispering to people like, don't forget, you have to take this out. Don't, you know, don't forget. I get I get the excitement.

And so, that was an interesting because it's not like you don't you can do whatever you want and I'm not in charge of you, but I've done this before and I know what it feels like to to rush.

And in these moments, like, I mean, that's the beautiful part about retreat is that we are so in the present moment. That is part of the the practices in these moments really just feeling into the space, into our brothers, into the the different events and happenings going on and and really grounding ourselves in the here and the now. But there are are also these moments where like, yes, I could be feeling into this giant stump and then forgetting that in 4, 5 days I've gotta get this thing out. And so it is a delicate balance between, like, the here now and the there then. And you've gotta be able to bounce kind of back and forth.

And, that's where a lot of the practices, you know, were valuable for me. It was that I could, you know, understand the ripple effects as the point person and start to see how all the pieces were coming together while also being able to pull back and stay back in or come back to the present moment.

So, we don't wanna beat a dead horse about, like, what the point person does, but I will say when I described the role of being a point person, I always described it as being 5 steps of being 5 steps ahead of 2 or maybe 3 possible future outcomes in an environment where everyone else is dropped fully into the present moment. And it is really tricky because, oh, I get it. You're here. You're now. Well, I'm 1 I have 3 possible things and I have to be ahead of all of them.

And then when we make that decision, prepared for all of them. It is a really tricky balance. So you you did a beautiful job.

Thank you. And it it was a practice and it was, you mentioned too about, like, it there's a lot of acceptance that has to happen, especially in in your role where you weren't directly hands on with as much as you had been in retreats past. And, you know, there's there is acceptance of that. You have to give people the dignity to come do the work, right, and show up, however they're gonna show up, and you can help to guide them and, give them advice and counsel. But at the end of the day, it is their dignity and their responsibility to, you know, do how they're gonna do.

Right. So you're talking about how we show up.

Mhmm.

Yeah. Which is it's so important and you're right. I had to let people have their chance. And sometimes when you give someone a chance, you discover something totally new. A good example would be when you set up the candles for the embodiment circle here in town and you did it you did it in a totally different way.

And it was an excellent way that I had never considered. And And now I feel like I have 2 different ways of doing it. And maybe if another person came and gave it the same attention you did, we might discover even a third way or a fourth way. So that can be the the upside of it. The downside can be, oh, you didn't you didn't do that quite as well as I would have

Yeah.

There's liked or, you know, I did see some flaws in the drala at the retreat that I didn't, try not to focus on too much, but I'm like, oh, I would have I would have done that a little differently.

Yeah. It's a it's a practice of, like, there's no right or wrong answer. Right? There there can be what could be improved upon, what can make be make a little bit different. But in an environment like this where it is so organic, like, we can create as much masculine structure around it as possible.

But when you invite 33 men into a space that have never worked together, have never coexisted together, and you're also incorporating some spiritual elements of, like, listening to what is, what's within the field, and kind of moving and adjusting and pivoting as needed. So that we can create as much structure as we want around things, but I'll ultimately, at the end of the day, like, we're gonna be flowing. We are just gonna be be flowing in between the experiences. And there's, some people show up really powerfully in those moments, and some, you know, have a harder time. I had a harder time at first where I was, like, so attached to, like, certain outcomes and, like, you know, trying to keep the schedule as tight and, like, on schedule as possible.

And then I had to really start to learn to let go and kind of, like, show up powerfully in the unknown.

So you just mentioned this concept of structure and flow. We talked about this in a previous episode, the yang and the yin, the sun and the moon, the the masculine and the feminine. And you're right in these retreats, we have to flow, but but flow can only really happen in in a structure. So when we talk about how people show up, it's that showing up in my experience is part of the structure. And then once we've created a structure, then then the flow can happen and we can start listening to the flow and we can start adjusting the structure to the flow if if that is needed.

So I remember when I was doing my coach training, someone said about they gave me a a tip on facilitation and they used the phrase, a tight plan loosely held, which indicated this idea that you spend a lot of time. So when I create a circle, I spend a lot of time. What do I wanna do? What are the order of the practices? How long approximately will I be in there?

What is the music? Blah blah blah blah blah. And then when I walk in, I have to loosen my grip and listen to what is happening and adjust to it. And there have been times when I've completely cut exercises because because I'm thinking it's not the right thing. I'm looking at the room.

The men are in a different place right now, and I have to honor what is happening. And that might require change, but the change often becomes very easy when I had that tight structure, the tight plan because then I could flow out of it but with reference to something.

Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I think of like the the river banks. Right?

So like water is flowing through the river banks and, like, the river banks are the structure that is pretty tight, but the water, depending on how much flow is happening, could erode those river banks, could find new pathways. And my job isn't to stop it from doing that. My job is to to witness it and watch where it goes and then see what happens from there. And then, again, continuing to, like, kinda create banks around it, as to the best of my ability. And, you know, I think about, like, the my own offering at this retreat was all that.

Right? Where I went in, I had a plan, and then as soon as those doors open, basically, that plan was going out the window. I could still reference back to it, but it really was. It was like, okay. Like, I'm letting go.

I'm gonna feel into what's needed in these moments, and we're just gonna go with it. And, again, there is no right or wrong answer. It's just, like, deepening into the experience and and staying as present as possible.

So I think that's part of how we show up. When we talk about showing up and the importance of showing up, how we show up part of that is are we are we prepared? Are we arriving with a plan? Are we arriving with a context? Are we arriving with an awareness of what's happening or not?

And I have found that when people arrive prepared in whatever way, they are adding to the structure. So a participant, for example, doesn't need to know, where we're going, the arc of the experience, details like that. But when they if they are all in and they show up on time, ready, prepared and eager, it it adds to the space. It makes the it makes the work easier for everyone trying to create it. And then if you show up in a different way, a more flippant way, a less aware way, I meander in late.

I am not a spatially aware or time aware. Sound aware is a big one. Right? To be like, oh, you're making an enormous amount of sound, in a moment when everyone else is dropped in and quiet. It can start to erode away at at the at the container and the and the experience for other people.

And so showing up to me, isn't just a thing that we want to do for ourselves, but it's a thing that we wanna do for everyone.

Yeah. I think about, I like to say showing up is the hardest part and showing up. It doesn't just happen once. It happens moment to moment, instance to instance, occasion to occasion. And so I show up to a retreat or to a practice or to whatever it might be in my life with an intention.

Right? And I think that goes part back to a part of, what we incorporate into showing up, showing up with, intention. And then from there, really just constantly reminding myself of, like, hey, continuing continuing to show up. It wasn't just enough to be there. I also have to keep that situational awareness.

What's going on around me? How are other people behaving? How are they acting? Right? What opportunities are arising where I might need to show up in a position of leadership or in a position of, you know, getting something done or of stepping back and allowing somebody else to do something.

Like, all these are ways in which I can show up.

I think it mirrors the practice of meditation so beautifully. Showing up isn't a light switch that we flip one time. Showing up is this continual coming back to the intention or to the purpose. And so, you know, we see the meditation, you you start to focus on something. Oftentimes the breath may be a mantra and you will inevitably drift away from it.

And when you recognize that you've drifted, you come back. And then you drift again and you come back, and you drift again and you come back. That's the way that though I understand it the way that I've been trained. This continual coming back without judgment and without, like, punishment. Oh, I drifted away?

Back. Oh, I'm having a really fun thought? Back. And I think showing up is the same. We are allowed to drift.

You're allowed it is human to get distracted, get tired, drift off in thought and the practice becomes as soon as I'm aware of it, I bring it back. And when you are in a group of people who are all doing that, you can feel it. It isn't called a perfect. It's called a practice because it is exactly that. So the way we show up is a practice and in these retreats, hopefully, and in my experience most often, you get a lot of men who are practicing showing up.

And so when they make a mistake, there is a lot of grace given because you recognize I'm in the practice of showing up and I'm not always gonna do that well. As opposed to when someone clearly doesn't care and the the impact that that has, it has a totally different flavor. It has a completely different aroma, and, and it is harder to work with.

Absolutely. When you've got men showing up with with intention and with this shared purpose, you know, again, shared values, there's also beauty in being able to communicate openly and honestly with folks about how they may be showing up, how we may be observing things, and and wanting, you know, more from somebody as well. And we're able to give each other sharp feedback from a loving, you know, place that isn't about, you said it before, it's not about obedience. Mhmm. It's about bringing awareness to why we all decided to be here, going back to our intention, and then asking that person to reflect, do you think the way that you're showing up is contributing to this container in a way that is upholding your intention?

So I was taught, by Carolyn Mays. She is a self help, spiritual guide teacher. Pretty famous, does a lot of workshops and podcasts and recordings and whatnot. And she talked about the definition of self esteem. It really landed with me.

Self esteem, the way we build self esteem is by upholding the commitments we make to ourselves. According to Carolyn Mays, the way that we build self esteem is by upholding the commitments we make to ourselves. And I would argue that showing up in the way that we're talking about it is upholding the commitments we make to ourselves and to others. And in the in the case of a retreat, you know, we have made commitments for the for the time that we are there, whether it's Tuesday through Sunday or Thursday through Sunday. I've committed to stepping into this practice, to showing up as fully as I can, to being present, being aware of time, being aware of, you know, my engagement, blah, blah, blah.

That's the commitment. And are we upholding that commitment to the best of our ability? That to me is showing up. So trying to step away from excuses, trying to step away from old habits, and trying to step into a level. And I think the power of these retreats is that oftentimes you are surrounded by other men who are capable, very, very capable in a in an inspirational way of showing up and claiming when they do when they have failed to do so.

That's the other thing about, showing up that I think is so important. A man who was willing to recognize, oh, I was I was out of integrity in this moment. I'm gonna take the responsibility, I'm gonna recognize the impact, I'm gonna take responsibility, and I'm gonna make a new commitment. Again, because it's not a perfect practice. And so there's a lot of trust in that part of showing up is recognizing when you haven't done so fully and claiming it.

And I think we saw a lot of that in this retreat. The the claiming of, hey, this is happening. I this is where I fell short. This is my new commitment. Just having someone recognize.

I think a lot of pain in the world that I've experienced, it was like, oh, you hurt me. And I and I don't even know that you're aware of it. When someone recognizes what they've done and the potential impact, that to me is healing. Maybe it's not the whole healing, all the healing you need, but a really big first important step. Oh, you recognize what you just did.

You see that it had an impact with me. As opposed to the person who's I'm, I look, everything's amazing. I don't I don't have any awareness at all. My Instagram looks like I'm always at a party. I'm sexy and fun.

Like there are moments where you're like, oh my God, you have no idea that you just rocked me. Right? That awareness is a huge part of how we show up because no one is gonna be perfect.

Right. Because I think that many of us have a commitment to ourselves of honesty and empathy. Right? These are parts of of many people that I've interacted with. Everyone at the retreat, I would say, had commitments in themselves of that.

So that if there were instances of that where their their actions, whether it was their intention or not, had an impact on somebody, like, they can recognize that and own that, you know, because that's that's part of their commitment to themselves. So I wanna I wanna use that as a transition. We as queer men, we have commitments to ourselves of authenticity. And so we show up authentically ourselves, but there are unique challenges we face in masculine spaces. So I wanna talk about, like, how do you think showing up as a queer man, a queer man in a men's retreat differs?

And what strengths did we bring to a cut this kind of environment?

Thank you for that. I think one of the things I do is remind myself that I have to be me. And it's a little maybe easier because I'm in a position of leadership now. I'm so close to the teacher. But, even before that moment, like, I have to speak my truth.

I have to be aware of a desire to hide or a desire to cloak, which I think I'm I'm very, very good at. I think a lot of queer people are very good at as a defensive, so, safety mechanism. And I have to be willing to show up as I am and be that the whole time. And I have to be willing it's scary at times. I have to be willing to have that uncomfortable moment when I when I notice a straight brother who can't quite understand the context in which I live.

I'll give you an example. I was on my way to oh, what ended up being my 4th retreat. I was the point person for an MWI, and I met up with other parts of the leadership team in Spokane and we were gonna then drive to the retreat house. And we all got to, like, the car and we stopped at a grocery store to get a few things on our way. And my friend who I'd known, he looked at me and he said, Tim, your clothes are so tight.

Your clothes are so tight. And I was I paused for a minute. I'm I I didn't know what to say. I wasn't thinking about my clothes in that moment at all. So I it kinda took me back.

And then I thought I'm like, well, these aren't even my tight clothes from, like, a gay standard, like a person who lives in Provincetown or like someone who goes, you know. And then I thought, oh, but the way that I dress is pretty queer comparatively, you know, to the way that this person dressed. And this is a man who loves me and I love him, but there was that moment of, oh, do am I, like, am I dressing gay? Am I am I signaling that? And I had to go through a whole process, but the bottom line is, well, these are the pants I brought.

I didn't actually think they were particularly tight, but clearly tighter than what this man would have worn.

I I had a conversation with with 2 brothers on retreat because me and my accountability partner, both queer men, was actually very proud with our our turnout. We had, 33 men on retreat, and 4 were outwardly queer. And so that's over a 10%. That's over 10%. It's bigger than the the regular population.

I'd like to take a little responsibility for that. Yeah. Like, I I feel like I contributed to that a little bit, but, yes, that's

yeah. And so I was having this conversation with 2 brothers, and he's like, yeah. You and you and Mike are really like you're you just sparkle with so much joy and energy, and we love it. And they were they were talking about, like, you know, they're like, oh, we went to, Burning Man once, and they had these things called, like, sparkle ponies that are just there, and they're just, like, so flamboyant, and they dressed in, like, all this stuff. And I was like, okay.

I'm gonna ask you a question. Like, do you think they're doing that from a place of play, or do you think they are doing it from a place of performance and putting on a display? And they took a step back, and they're like, oh, we think it's display. We think that that they're performative. I was like, okay.

So now that's a judgment. Right? I was able to help, like, them walk through. I was like, that could just be them expressing themselves. They could just be in a moment of pure play.

So I think about your clothes, your tight pants that probably weren't all that tight to you, but to somebody else seeing it for the first time, they're like, oh, this person is being display. They're in a performative. They're like, oh, I wanna bring attention to myself versus, like, that's just your way of expression. That's just a play of for yourself. And so I was really helping them to to see through this and, like, to to witness them kind of, like, take that step back and, like, start to really consider how they were starting to harness or harbor judgments, not in a bad way or anything, but they were definitely, like, identifying me as a person that was, like, on display.

Right?

Well, I think when you look at someone who is expressing themselves in very clear ways and if that expression feels far away, It it it isn't a huge leap for me to understand how someone would think, well, that must be a display because it would have to be for me. I think if you look at it like in order for me to do that, it would I would have to be performing that. And I can I can understand that and that but I think what your point is and that I agree with is this idea of like, but that doesn't mean that they are performing that? That might be their natural expression and we have to start to get adept at recognizing the myriad of expressions available to so many people. And some of that expression may be really different than what comes naturally to you, anyone.

Right? I'd like to tell the story about the the fire dance if you okay. Are you open to that? I am. I am.

So this is a thing that has never happened on any retreat I've been on, but Amir asked me to do a dance in one of the practices. And I immediately said yes, but I immediately also knew it was gonna be my edge because I thought, okay, well, there is gonna be a queer man in the center of the room and he's gonna be dancing and all of the potential stereotypes and ideas around it. And so I was gonna put I'm like, I'm gonna push myself. I I stepped into it. I'm really glad I did it.

That was very empowering. But I had to I had a whole practice around it because I could feel myself getting nervous because of what I thought they might perceive me to be. And I could and I started to feel myself choreographing what I was gonna do as a safety mechanism to be like, well, I'm just gonna I'm gonna do this or this. I'm gonna try to impress them with something really, something they can't do and show them how strong I am and how flexible I am and, you know, how nimble and whatever. And then I said, you know, Tim, you have to you have to relax that.

And so and especially Amir also threw something at me at the last minute that I didn't expect. So I closed my eyes. I started breathing and just I have to listen to the music. I have to trust. And and that's what I did.

But there was that thing before of, well, how am I gonna be perceived? Like, am I am I gonna be that gay clown that we've seen portrayed so so much? And then I had to I had to not worry about that and think only about what would my authentic expression be in this moment and then let people deal with it however they will. And I received a lot of positive feedback from what I saw. What was interesting though is there were there were some men who said nothing to me, which is odd because everyone looked at it.

There was there was a 7 minute moment when there was nothing else to see but me doing that.

Yeah. It was a dark room and in the middle of it were candles with Tim.

A circle of candles.

Yeah. Circle of candles, Tim's fire pit, his dancing fire pit, where for the audience, like, this is this is one of the most incredible things to witness. This this man, 6 feet tall, in this tight circle dancing beautifully, expressing himself, demonstrating to this group a beautiful balance of masculine and feminine energies, it was incredible to witness during the entire 7, 8 minute set, this dance, this beautiful dance, not a single candle was knocked over.

And That was the most impressive part.

This facial awareness that this man had to be in full flow, mind you, full flow while also aware of his container. I was like, this is the balance of masculine and feminine energy right here on display for me right now. It was beautiful.

Well, thank you for that. But I bring it up Some a lot of people some people said lovely things. Many people said nothing. And I have I can assume some of them maybe it didn't really dawn on them or, you know, some of them but I suspect some of them didn't say anything because they didn't have anything to like, they didn't have a context for it. Because some of those men were my friends.

I mean, you haven't said anything to me. And because I think it can be challenging to watch a man as big as I am and, you know, step into that sort of expression and I think that's the reason we're doing the work. And so recognize the the possibility of a wide array of expression from a wide variety of people can look like so many things. And and and if I see something that is very different or I'm something that I'm unfamiliar, that's unfamiliar to me, can we start to bring some curiosity rather than fear or judgment or withdrawal?

And I think that's exactly what it did. Seeing you in that play state, I think, actually started to crack a couple men open. I think it actually started to open them up to the possibility of, like, a little bit more flow and a little bit more playfulness in their their own practices. And I think that I think that was the night before the big, feminine practice the next morning.

Right? I I think that, like, probably witnessing that started to give people that that subconscious permission to to start experiencing more things. And then what I noticed throughout the the, arc of the retreat is that more and more men were becoming more joyful as well. Mhmm. There was more playfulness happening.

There was more joy. There was more, brotherhood being created. And, like, there were some men, one of our our TFTP level 1 men, Jose, who came up to me and was like, yo, it's been like hugging men, being physical, like, physical contact with men has been, you know, an edge for him. He didn't grow up with masculine contact or, like, physical contact with men. And it wasn't until recently that he actually hugged another man.

And so, like, but and then during this retreat, like, every time we saw each other, he gave came over and gave me a big hug. And, like, his his, like the playful energy that was coming from it wasn't in a sexual way at all. It was it really was. You could see his eyes light up. He was sparkling, right, with how, like, joyful he was feeling in those moments.

And so I think it really had a ripple effect. Our presence there as queer men of showing up authentically, I think, started to give people that subconscious permission to start showing up a little bit more authentically themselves.

I think that's right. And when we talk about how we show up, I I believe part of that has to do with the reverence, the mission, and purpose with which we did show up. We weren't we weren't there to do anything other than our own work and to and and then we were leadership, so we were there to help create a space where other men could do that too. It and it's a it's a saying in the men's workspace, doing this without agenda, not wanting anything from anyone else. And so how we show up?

Oh, we show up here fully to do the work without agenda and not wanting anything from anyone else and expressing ourselves fully, I think gives permission for people to feel safe around us, for people to feel safe in expressing authentically in front of us, and to accept our authentic expression, more fully even if it takes them a little bit of time. So the way like, I do believe that the queer men in this retreat showed up strongly, and I think that played a really important factor as opposed to if we had shown up with a lack of intention, or

Or commitment to ourselves. If we start hiding ourselves, I think that could have also had a ripple effect as well.

Absolutely. Not just in our own personal experience of I'm being duplicitous because I'm falling into old habits and protecting myself. But in the in the the way that that expression is received, you can kinda feel that. You know, like, oh, you're not you're not being entirely real. I actually there was a guy, I don't remember his name luckily.

I don't wanna say it anyway, where he was asking Amir some questions. He was talking about his wife and they had a I'm gonna say they had, like, a 20 to 25 minute conversation trying to get into it. But the whole time and I don't think that he was trying to deceive anybody. I'm like, but I do not feel the full I do not feel like you're giving us the full story. Feel like you're in your head and you're in your story.

I was like, but there's something here. And Amir kept he was like, I need I need something. He's like, but what's the thing? What's the thing? What's the thing?

And so I still really liked him. I ended up having a long conversation with him. Think he's a good guy. I hope to see him on another retreat, all of that. But I could feel in his expression, there's something missing here.

And so that has a ripple impact on, like, well, am I willing to give you a 100% of me if I know you're not giving me a 100% of you? Oh, it's you know? Right.

It is it it does become difficult, and it's just it's like bringing it back to me. Like, I am gonna commit to myself to bringing 100 percent of me even though there may be those those times where I start to feel let myself closing because I may not be getting 100% from somebody else. And it's that that's part of my practice.

Well, the way we show up the way we show up is this intention to give a 100%. Chances are we can't. That's a that's a a teaching that I think is so important which is you can intend it's like the impossible goal. You can intend to give a 100% and keep intending that and keep working towards it without the expectation that it has to be a 100. Mhmm.

So You're gonna give your best, but it doesn't have to be perfect.

Right. And so I'm and there are moments where it feels pretty close. Like, oh, like, you know, that practice that I led on Wednesday, I'm like, I really showed up. I came prepared. I felt good.

I had been practiced, you know. There are other moments where, oh, I did I I I gave 75% and that's a bummer. But I was still doing the things it took and then that becomes part of the practice where, oh, like in the in the pursuit of a 100, sometimes you don't meet it. Mhmm. And then what do you do with that?

As opposed to, well, if I don't if I don't have a standard, then everything kind of just gets a little loosey goosey, a little more chaotic.

Right. There's honoring where you're at in the moment, which is a big part for me why I pursue men's work, and I want to be deeper in this work and pursue leadership in this this work and and facilitate my own is to continue to show men that they are loved and that they are accepted exactly as they are. Right? And then giving their best, while it may not be 100, right, is still really beautiful and something worthy of being celebrated. And, you know, that kind of mentality, I think really started to permeate through the retreat, and we started, like, loosening up into each other and really accepting our brothers, like, as they were, as they are.

And you start to see people, like, taking off their armor bit by bit by bit and showing up more authentically themselves. You start to see those sparks of joy, but you also start to see some of the deep sadness and the frustrations and the angers and all these things just revealing themselves over time as they are just shedding all of these guards that they had put up because they are resting in the safety of this container that's allowing them to be who they are.

So there was a moment with the level 2 men. So in this training program, there's level 1 men, which is what you are. And then level 2 men are in their second level of training and, are leaders to level 1 men. And, of course, I've already done that, so now I'm helping lead level 2 men. And I was giving the level 2 men feedback about how they were giving feedback.

Because every everyone in this space is is being trained and sharpened, And I I even mentioned that, Amir gave me feedback after my offering, and I said I was eager to receive it even though I'm not being trained. You know, I'm not in a program right now. You know? And so I gave feedback to this one level 2 man about about his feedback. And I said, you know, it wasn't Sharp or specific.

You need to come with Sharp and specific. And he said, well, I'm doing these 2 jobs and they are in conflict. So he was also the videographer and busy with that and doing an excellent job at it. And I said, well, then you have to own that. I said, so maybe it's the case, given now that you are doing 2 jobs simultaneously, that you can't give as much feedback.

I said, own it. Mhmm. Let us know that. Tell us what you can do and then do that to the best of your ability. And I think it was a really powerful moment when he then claimed that and said, listen, because I'm doing this thing, what I'm gonna be able to deliver is one thing I loved and one thing I could use more of for each man.

And I thought that's really trustable, super in integrity. It honors what we already know. We all saw him working hard with that video camera. Right? And then it set an expectation and his feedback was better.

And I the the analogy that I used with the feedback was, you know, Christmas morning for anyone who celebrates Christmas when I was a kid, you know, you wake up and there's presents under the tree. But my mom would like, she would buy me underwear that I needed and wrap it as a Christmas gift or or socks or, you know, whatever. Gifts that you're like, oh, you know,

But these days, those are the gifts that I love. No. For sure.

Listen. Any any listener Perspective shows. Yeah. Any listener who's who wants to send me a Christmas gift, like, I love, like, really high quality athletic underwear and athletic socks. I love them, so send them.

But when I was a boy, I didn't care about them. And what I cared about was like the one big gift. For me, it always felt like every Christmas there was one big gift. I wanted like the Nintendo Game Boy or I wanted like a Walkman. I'm aging myself now, right, or like a Discman or whatever the thing was that I wanted.

And most of the people where I grew up in the sort of like lower middle class community, we they had that experience. I want this jacket or I want, you know and everything else didn't really matter. So I said to to to this level 2 man, just give them just give them the nugget that's like most valuable. Don't you don't have to you don't have to fill it in with here's some socks and here's some underwear. Again, if you want to please send me socks.

But I'm like very athletic, so I need them to have a little bit of elasticity. Just give them one thing. And I think I think things improved from that moment because we didn't have to go through all this. Like, I feel like I have to say more words for you to believe that it's important. Like, no.

Give us one thing and the and the one thing that matters, and he did.

It's exact it's like allowing in those moments, like, outward expectations to change who you are, right, versus owning who you are and what you're able to give in that moment. And, like like like confidently owning that truth and not allowing the external pressures to to shift you away from that truth. So the external pressures in this case was the assignment was 3 pieces of feedback, positive three pieces of feedback for our opportunity for growth. Right? That was that was impacting him, and he was not able to do that aligning with his truth and what he was capable of giving.

As soon as he was as soon as he changed those expectations, shifted them to better align with where he was at, his authenticity, his authentic expression, then we got to see him blossom in that. And I think it just is that beautiful moment of continuing to, you know, commit to yourself, commit to what you're capable of, commit to what you're showing up with, and commit to, like, you being authentically yourself in any given moment.

So when we think about queer people in this space and how we show up, I do think we are really talking about trying to bring our fullness without hiding. And I just wanna say, I think it's important in these spaces of consciousness and spiritual spaces where we should feel safe to do that. And honoring the idea that not all spaces are gonna be safe, and there may be moments when any queer person listening may still have to make some challenging choices about how they engage, how they present themselves, to keep themselves safe. So so if that happens, first of all, I'm sorry that that has to happen. I have experienced that.

And I am a cisgendered white gay man, so I have an enormous amount of privilege compared to some people. And I still sometimes have to do that. Right? It doesn't feel good, but sometimes I don't feel safe.

So I have to do the things I have to do. That is can be a part of our experience. I'm hoping that in conscious spaces, there is a greater level of safety so that we can bring our fullness. And that in so doing, we start to educate people about who and how we are and our value and start a shift in the right direction. Moving away from fear and uncertainty into, oh, this is just another person, another person who expresses a little differently than I do, engages a little differently.

And, and I can meet them in that way. And I have found that most often in these spaces, that's what I have found. People willing to accept me for me. And I'm hoping that that slowly but surely is creating a world in which, the rest of the queer community gets safer and safer and safer.

And I would say I I had that moment where I I really felt that people were accepting me for me, and it gave me an opportunity to accept others for themselves as well. And I think that was a really big moment for me where I started to accept these other men as they were, and that helped me start to face some of my trust issues that I have with men.

Totally. Because I think to myself, yes. I think to myself sometimes, oh, well, moments I don't feel safe are potentially moments where I'm jumping to a a conclusion about a person. Oh, you look you look you you are walking or talking or dressed like this person that once made me feel unsafe. And now I'm going to jump to a conclusion of like and you know, sometimes it's not like a conscious decision, but like a, oh, you're triggering something.

But the work that I've done in these spaces has taught me, oh, that isn't that isn't most of these men. Most of these men are not the bully that I that I knew and that the one that I feared and sometimes still fear. They're something else. And so it's helping me to be a little bit more curious and to take a little bit more time, to figure out, you know and I've had I've had really interesting experiences where I'm like, oh, there's no way this dude is you know, I just had this idea of what they were gonna be. And then they blow my mind.

You're like, oh, I was not expecting you to come at me this way or meet me in this way or be excited about this thing and and, like, look. Now I'm pleasantly surprised.

The power of showing up. Right? Like, you demonstrating that, like, you could have fallen into any number of old patternings, but you showed up with a commitment to yourself of with curiosity, empathy, honesty, and you got to reap some beautiful learnings and growth from that. And, you know, that was that's part of what I experienced on this retreat as well. So it's continuing to demonstrate the power of showing up.

The power of showing up.

Yeah. What we what impact can we have when we practice again, practice showing up as fully as we can over and over and over again, showing up right now, showing up later, continuing to show up. This has been an unbelievable conversation. You helped me show up. You, you remind me this is part of the importance of community, is to have people around you.

So so that in those moments when you feel a little tired, you get a little distracted, sometimes you're just sort of like, I just kinda forgot. And then you look over at this man and you are reminded. So in yoga, the satsang, and in men's work, our community, our brotherhood is supporting us by reminding us through inspiration. So you inspire me with the way you show up. And I think it it is helping me to show up more fully.

Hopefully, I'm doing a similar thing for you and other people. And together, if we all are doing our best whenever we can, what kind of world can we live in when everyone's trying to show up for each other?

That's right. A beautiful world that I want to be a part

of. Let's be a part of that world. Let's do it. Part of No. I I I don't know.

Maybe that's if we if we keep singing that, we're gonna get charged. So, yeah, let's be a part of that world with no melody. Do you feel complete with this conversation?

I feel very complete.

I feel complete too. aho.