Presence in Men’s Work: Grounding and Awareness

Welcome to The Circle. A queer men's conversation about men's work, men's embodiment practice, men's spirituality, and men's personal growth with an emphasis on how queer men can participate, benefit, serve, and lead in these spaces. My name is Timothy Bish.

My name is Eric Baumier. Welcome back to The Circle, the podcast for queer men's embodiment. Today, we explore the power of presence. What it means to be fully present in your mind, body, and relationships, and why cultivating presence is essential for personal growth. We'll talk about how presence builds deeper connections, fosters awareness, and helps men stay grounded even in challenging situations. Tim, I know you led 2 circles recently on Presence, the Sharing Circle and the Embodiment Circle here in Provincetown. Can you share a bit about those practices and what were some of the things that came up that would help our audience understand what Presence means in the context of men's work?

I absolutely can. I decided to make presence a topic for those circles, a, because it was such a big part of my experience of men's work. In the men's coach training that I did through men's wisdom work, it was one of the foundational skills and practices that we were taught and needed in order to engage in the practice of coaching, which is obviously a relationship in which one person is there to, reflect and, support and at times, guide another person in the direction of their fullness and their purpose and but not. And so in order to do that fully, you have to be present. And so it was the first time that I had a real conversation about what this really meant. Presence until then was just sort of, like, pay attention. And pay attention is not the wrong direction, but I started to realize that there was more to it and my teachers were telling me there was more to it and a lot of different ways of thinking about it, a lot of different ways of working with it. And so I wanted to do this 2 circles with that in mind and with the understanding that a lot of people like myself before I had been given the opportunity to dive in, don't really know what presence is or they have they have the same general idea I had, which was pay attention. So I wanted to do a deep dive into, well, what what do you think presence is and and how does it change if we consider this concept or this concept or this concept? And that's what the circles are about.

Yeah. And when I think of presence, I think of, like, being in the moment, but then, like, what does that actually mean? Like, is it physically in the moment, emotionally in the moment, spiritually in the moment? Like, what is the moment? So, I think we can unpack a little bit more about, like, you know, how should we define presence and what were some of the, responses that came up during the circle when when men were were prompted with to inquire about what presence meant to them.

Well, I I wonder if you've ever had the experience of being at a dinner with a very close friend. I've had this experience numerous times. It's totally magic, and it feels like time stops. And so you're talking, you're so engaged, and then you realize, oh my god. We've been here for 3 hours. We've been here for 4 hours. You know? I think those are that can be an example of presence that a lot of people have had even if fleetingly or rarely where, oh, I was so here with you that other things started to fly away. Now that isn't the the goal of presence maybe, but like one example that I think people can latch onto. So in the training that I've done, this idea of presence is being aware of myself, my feeling, my emotions, my sensations, while simultaneously trying to be aware of my environment and the people within that environment. The most basic example would be a conversation in which I'm trying to stay aware of what I'm feeling and I'm trying to stay aware of what you're saying and how you are presenting and maintain that awareness for as long as I can, throughout the experience.

Yeah. What I just heard you say is that there's there's a balance between internal presence, what's going on in my internal environment and what's going on outside of me and balancing those two presences or awarenesses of what's happening internally, externally, and, you know, staying grounded and rooted, you know, in the current moment. In those, in that, I find sometimes that when I'm in presence practice, whether I'm meditating in the morning, I have an easier time staying inward. And and kind of being within my body, I can kind of like focus and stay. It's when I start going outside of my body that I can sometimes start attaching narrative and story, and I can start getting lost in thought. And then I'm either in the past or in the future. And so, in your experience, how does cultivating presence, help men stay grounded and connected, with their bodies and with their environment?

Well, I think an awareness of your body is a crucial component to presence. So this this awareness of how am I feeling when I'm in a moment with you? Do I feel butterflies in my stomach? Do I feel a weight? Do you you know, what is occurring? So that component I think is part of the practice. The benefit of presence just for any, any person, any man would be the possibility of really true authentic connection and expression. I think what happens a lot is that men will feel very comfortable in their head. And so they will stay in their head. They've been rewarded for reason and logic, linear thinking, all that kind of thing. And so they'll default to that. And so you will have a tendency to overthink, overanalyze, over reason something. And to me, it feels like presence practice is an invitation to bring all of you online, which which I think is the goal of men's work, to allow all parts of ourselves to inform us, bring all of you online in this moment, and then respond from that place. So it may not be the most polished series of words, but it might come from the most authentic place. And from that place, then we're probably likely to have greater recollection of our own personal experience, greater connection to our intuition, access to things that might allow me to be really with you here now and offer you things from this place rather than, oh, you said something.

I'm gonna I'm gonna regurgitate a quote I heard, you know, 3 years ago because I'm rationally or logically thinking what might serve as opposed to, oh, this just popped up for me, and I wanna tell it to you now. Right.

Yeah. Presence is such a core element of of men's work, and it really, like, is so foundational to helping us to reconnect with our bodies, to ask those questions of, like, what's going on inside of me so that I can, you know, be present for myself and for others. And you talked a little bit about, like, the experience of being at a dinner with somebody who was fully tuned in and engaged with you. The the opposite. Right? We've been in those situations where we've been with somebody who is not there, who's not present, who's either hanging out in the past or somewhere in the future, but they are not here with us right now. And, I think, you know, that's a a challenge for for a lot of people is like how to cultivate presence and how to kind of, avoid falling into the past or or projecting into the future. So, from your experience, what are some of the the ways in which you've seen, be helpful to help men kind of pull themselves back in?

Pull themselves back into presence? Yes. I think some of the easiest, quickest, most accessible ways to to start becoming present is through the body and the breath. So in the yogic philosophy, we have the 5 koshas, the 5 bodies that go from the most gross, which is our physical body, to the most subtle. But if you impact 1, you impact all of them. And one of the reasons I love the practices of yoga is, like, we can take the part of us that's hardest to deny, work with it and then ripple through. So if you ask a person to look at their breath, to feel it, to notice it, to become curious about it. You can do it right now. Like, let's take a deep breath together. And if I think about the qualities of my breath, was it deep or shallow? Was it warm or cold? That was it did it exist in my chest? Did it go all the way to my abdomen? There's so many different ways of was it loud or was it quiet? You know, but it won't really matter. Purely just looking at it brings you here now in yourself in this moment because the breath is happening now, right now. So that's one way. And then also some physical sensation because it's also happening right now and it's a thing we can't get away from. We take whatever body we have. We take it with us throughout our entire life experience. So it can be really helpful. Oh, what if instead of just sitting like we so tend to do, I'm sitting right now. What if I brought awareness to how how my middle back and my shoulder blades feel against this chair? And I'm doing it right now. And as soon as I did that, I came more into this moment.

I'm doing it right now with with my feet. I can feel my foot on the ground and the sensation of the ground meeting my foot and kind of that balance between the 2. What I find though is that when I do that, I lost connection to you. I started to become so focused on myself, and I found it really challenging to, like, in that invitation of, like, you know, can we, like, assess in this moment, like, how my body feels? And I became aware of my body, and I was working with presence, but I, like, I disconnected from you for a moment. And so for me, that really is a a barrier, to to presence with others sometimes. So I wonder

Well, I would say, just gonna jump in, you know, part of the the training that I have done and that I, participate in now with my teacher, talks about this shamanic state. We might call it a yogic state too or any number of states, but, where when you are facilitating the work that there is a percentage of you that's aware of you and a percentage of you that's aware of the room, the experience that you're guiding, whatever that, you know, maybe that's 3 people, maybe it's 35 people, maybe it's a 100 people, you know, And there's this split awareness that we endeavor to create and maintain. And I have had the experience of when I'm able to do that, words come that later on I'm like, wow, I think I think I kind of nailed that, but I don't exactly know what I said or just because it was the very in the moment connected to what was happening. But it's a practice. So, you know, my teacher, we are currently doing the transpersonal facilitation training program with Embodied Masculine. And one of the reasons why programs like this exist is because it isn't necessarily a thing that everyone knows how to do really well right away. So, you know, I believe that I have the capability of being a really, really great juggler, but I'm not one right now. And so what would it take? It would take me finding someone who knew how to juggle and giving me some drills and then slowly and slowly doing and doing and doing, getting better and better and better. And then, like, maybe in 18 months from now, I'm doing, like, an impressive 5 are they balls?

Are they sacks? Whatever. Bullet pins. Whatever. Yeah. Bullet yeah. Daggers, whatever it is. Something really impressive, but that wouldn't that wouldn't no one would expect me to be really good at that right away. Yeah.

What I heard though in that analogy though is that you would have a desire to become a juggler. So people need to have a desire to be more present. So what are some of the benefits? What are some of the reasons why somebody would want to do the work to become more present in their life?

Well, the quality of your interaction is improved in my opinion, but also in my experience personally and in observation. So if we're guaranteed one life and in this life, we are here to create and connect, And then we're not doing that fully because we are not practiced in presence or we're accustomed to being very distracted or whatever the thing is.

Yeah. What are some of those reasons? What are some of the things that stops us from being present?

Yeah. I mean, distraction, maybe the lack of awareness that presence is something deeper than just paying attention. And a lack of awareness about when other people aren't present. A lack of understanding of the impact that it has. I mean, we've talked about this, but I've been in situations with people who are not present with me and it has an impact. It changes what I'm willing to say to them or share with them or offer them. Not out of punishment, but as a protective mechanism of like, oh, you're not really here with me and so I'm not gonna offer you the the most vulnerable parts of me because I don't I can't trust that you and that's the word I wanna go back to. I can't trust that you can hold it. I think presence is also a practice in creating trust with those people, beings, and situations that we care most about so that we can be there fully.

Oh, a term that gets used a lot in this work is holding space. Right? So holding space or being a space holder, being a container for somebody. So what I just heard is that, like, you know, why would why would somebody open up, share vulnerable parts of themselves if they don't feel safe and trusting to do so. And so if I can if I'm wanting somebody to, listen to me, then I I do. I want them to be present with me. I need to trust that they're here with me right now to witness me, and we call that holding space.

And to reflect. And if you're if you're not in the present moment, your reflection might end up being this intellectual idea that you think is gonna be helpful. I'm gonna say the witty thing as opposed to, oh, I was so with you right now that this is what's coming up for me. Right. Which I have found is often not that beautiful quotes aren't helpful, but that it's often from that place where you're like, oh, here's the insight.

Right. You you said that, you know, a conversation like sometimes someone would be like, oh, this thing that I thought of 3 years ago, right, I think is relevant to this, this situation right now. And that may not be the case, but that person may have been like, they traveled back. Right? They, they got something. They went, they went back in time. They were kind of there and they were holding onto it and waiting for the moment to kind of bring it in versus being present and allowing that, you know, maybe that isn't gonna serve right now. Maybe that isn't the moment for it.

But it's all about the way we get there. Right? Because, I have also had the moment where I'm in I'm in a conversation or an experience with a person, and then suddenly this memory pops up that I haven't thought about in such a long time. But it pops up now, and I'm like, this is coming up for me. I wanna offer it to you, and it can be really helpful.

So that that 3 years ago moment can happen, but it's like, is it happening because I'm so present with you and so engaged in this moment that bits of insight are coming to me? Or am I trained to be in my head and think think and wanting to have the right answer instead of maybe the authentic answer or the present answer that I'm now like story writing what I think you want to hear or what I think will sound like the smart advice.

Or the thing that I'm holding on to as well. Because, as you were just talking, I was like, oh, this is very similar to, even these conversations where, like, I I am. I'm like, I'm trying to stay with you and stay present and you're doing the same thing. We're we're making eye contact and we're like here with each other. Then there are some times that, like, you say something and I get a bolt of inspiration.

And I'm like, oh, I wanna, like, do this, but you're, like, you're in the pocket. And I'm like, this is not the time. And sometimes I have to I have to let that go. I have to let go that, story or that that insight that I have to stay present. And And so sometimes I'll, like, write down a little note or I just say, it's gone now.

And that's okay. Like, accepting that. And then staying with you and continuing on and figuring out when's the next thing.

I think that's really important. This idea of not feeling like it's mandatory to always say or share every bit of insight. And I've had, you know, it's interesting. I've had I have friends in my life who do this where they will be talking and they're like, oh, I wanna say this thing. And so they make some sort of mental note or written note or whatever, but then they cannot move on until they've said that thing.

And the conversation is progressing. So they are missing now basically everything. Then they and there's one person in particular that I'm thinking about. They come back and they tell the story and it is no longer like sort of in the moment or relevant in the moment. And very frequently it's a little confusing to be like, wait, what are you talking like?

What? Because we've kind of moved on as opposed to being present means not only am I going to let the insights come as they come, but I'm also going to judge what, when am I, when is it my turn to make an addition and is that one that's coming or not coming? I think it's really tricky because obviously we want to share with people what we what we have or what we know, but there are times when, oh, I'm probably not gonna get to say that this time. It's okay.

Right. And listening for that moment and that opportunity to contribute or figuring out a way to take up space to contribute in that that moment. Because, yeah, if you're just holding onto like, oh, I wanna say this thing. I wanna say this thing. I wanna say this thing.

And you haven't said that thing. Now you're just you're you're trapped in the past. You're stuck. And I think that that is a barrier for a lot of of people, to stay present is that attachment, to something. And, like, so when I'm in my own meditation practices and I'm focused on myself, right, because I think we're we're talking, you know, a lot of presence with other people when I'm doing presence practice and I'm focused internally and on myself, I'm really training myself at that point of, like, finding what things I'm attached to, what things I'm averted to, and and recognizing that and and really practicing letting go and and staying in the moment.

And so I'm curious, what are what are some of the things that stop men from being present? What what has stopped you from being present? I think fear.

So for me, without going too deep into childhood, This fear of being in trouble, fear of not being enough makes a person, makes me, I'll speak about myself, made me hyper aware of how I have failed in the past and hyper vigilant about how to avoid that in the future. Both of those things are the opposite of presence. I'm thinking about the past and I'm forecasting the future and I'm trying to cultivate my moment right now so that the future isn't dangerous or unpredictable or uncomfortable. I think that for me is a really big one. I think this idea that we should always be busy and that we've revered busyness and work means we should always be going somewhere.

We should always be thinking about the next thing. There's, you know, it's also very future oriented. And so I think one of the big obstacles for men with regards to presence is we are rewarded for doing something now and thinking about the other thing in the future later and kind of constantly being in that cycle as opposed to just being here. You know what's interesting? This is popping up for me, hopefully because I'm being present.

How we eat and in the culture now where, oh, well while I'm eating, I'm often doing at least one other thing. Typically 2 or 3 other things. I might be watching the news or listening to a podcast. I might be quickly browsing social media or looking for my emails and having conversation with someone. This idea, you know, I have I should be doing many things at once.

And, you know, I know that there are practices where, oh, the the practice is to sit here quietly, chew your food, notice your food. How does it feel in your mouth? How does it taste? And when was the last time I'm not gonna ask you because you just got off of retreat.

I was about to say, like, that was actually one of my favorite parts of retreat was mindful eating. Yeah. Because in my my my non retreat life, I am voracious. I am a a full animal when it comes to food. Like, I'm a fast eater.

I eat a lot, and being on retreat was an opportunity to, like, slow down. And I actually started to, like, say grace to myself for the first time ever for my food before I dove dove into it. And I, like, thank the great mother for, like, you know, all the abundance that I was about to receive and, like, the journey that it took and all the people that, you know, touched the food in order to get to me. And I when I went into it with deep appreciation and gratitude and then slowed down, I was like, woah. Food tastes different, or I'm noticing it different, and it feels different.

Like, there's this one time that I was having salad, and a piece of lettuce tickled the top of my mouth, and I started giggling. I was just, like, laughing while eating, while talking to nobody. I didn't think I was, like like in the middle of the dining hall, 60 people around me, nobody's talking, nobody's looking at each other. Right? We're all just in our own practice.

And I just started bursting out laughing because this piece of lettuce was tickling my mouth. And it was a really special moment. And, like, I do try to, like, incorporate it more outside of retreat, but you're right. Like, you know, so many of us are doing so many other things, but it's a great opportunity to, you know, bring our attention to the present moment in, you know, times like that.

I mean, I wonder, that's a great story. I wonder how fully would you have noticed that sensation if you were at a table with 4 other friends chit chatting and or colleagues brainstorming about the meeting later or, you know, would would it have gone unnoticed or or or barely noticed? Because and I think so when we think about being really present, you're like, well, what's available to you? So why why would presence practice be important for men and on any people, any persons? Because think of what if you knew there was a lot more available to you?

If only it were the case that you would slow down or quiet down enough to notice it. Mhmm.

And I I don't think that if I would have been surrounded by people engaged in other activities, that moment would have passed. I wouldn't have noticed it. I've those moments have passed me many, many times, and that goes back to what I was I was saying earlier about the balance between internal presence and external awareness and presence. So, like, when I'm in when I'm, like, in a mindful eating, you know, meditation, I'm not gonna be able to really engage with somebody else. I'm not really gonna be able to be present with others because I'm so present with myself.

I think I understand what you're saying, and it sounds like there are different sort of presence practices as you see them. And I just wanna add in this moment that, you know, according to the men's coach training, which was done with the intention of 2 people meeting each other, They talked about this phrase called authentic presence, which was that what we talked about earlier, that awareness of myself and the awareness of my environment and maintaining them both. And we talked about it in, with regards to facilitation too. But I think you're right. I think there are a lot of practices where sometimes what I'm practicing is being fully inward.

And if that's what I'm practicing, it may be then hard or impossible to me for me to be outward in certain ways, and the same would be true in reverse. So am I hearing you right?

Absolutely. And I think that's the the the practice that I'm working on, right, is is when do I need those internal moments and when can I shift external and kinda that that give and take back and forth? So even, when you invited us into, like, can you feel your body a little bit? And, like, I was feeling my foot on the ground. You know, I I told you, like, I had a moment where I, like, I disconnected from you.

Mhmm. Because I was, like, grounding myself. But I think that's not right or wrong. It's actually an opportunity for me to say, okay. Where was I?

And can I bring myself back to then reconnect with somebody? Because I think that's also a powerful practice is, like, sometimes we have to be, we have to, like, come back to ourselves in order to be with somebody.

Right. And so I guess the question then becomes, can you cultivate the ability to be both present in your body and with someone else? So as soon as you said that about your foot and going inward, I brought awareness to my foot, specifically my left foot because of the way my legs are positioned right now. And thinking like, can I can I maintain awareness of my left foot and fully listen to you? And I can, but it's a practice where I'm like trying to do both things.

Yeah. Well, going back to, dinner and balancing 4 things at once, like, it is my at like, adamant opinion. Humans are not multitaskers. It is really hard for us to do even 2 things at once. And especially somebody like myself, like, I am very like, I'm I'm a one track person, and that, like, I can sometimes fixate because of that, but I find it really challenging to split my attention.

And I think we've been trained by technology, by society now that, like, oh, you should be able to multitask. You should be able to, like, you know, check your email while writing a report, while also, you know, doing 3 other things. And the truth is, like, that's just exhausting. Mhmm. And it's really challenging for a lot of people to maintain performance and to maintain, you know, any of those things well.

Right? Because you're splitting your attention versus, like, being able to, like, balance and and shift your attention as needed. So, like, I may sometimes in order to, like, stay with somebody, I may need to focus on myself for a second. I may need to be like, okay. I need to go inward real quick.

My anxiety is spiking or I'm starting to think in the past or I'm starting to think in the future. So let me take this moment right now to, like, put my foot on the ground, ground myself for a second, and then pop back in.

Well, so when you're talking about presence, what's coming up for me is I'm thinking about when I'm teaching yoga and I would argue and you're talking about, can we do more than one thing well at the same time? When I think about teaching yoga, I think about doing a lot of things at the same time. But now that you're talking about it, I'm learning, well, they're not exactly at the same time. So it is a part of this experience of yoga class and yoga classes I feel like I bringing, a good amount of presence. And in that time I'm, you know, noticing where I'm walking or how I'm standing.

I'm noticing what I'm saying and the quality of my voice as I'm saying it. I'm noticing the volume of the music and I'm noticing, you know, the students on the mats in front of me and, you know, all kinds of things. Situational awareness. Right. And that is me being present in, in my yoga class for 60 minutes or 75 minutes or 95 minutes, whatever the thing is.

But I wonder, well, in that split second where I look at my phone to, to adjust the music and what else am I thinking about in that moment? And the answer is I don't really know. So I'm gonna like do do kind of a, an exploration of that because I suspect even though I'm able to do them quickly in succession, which is like vinyasa, that in that moment, I probably focus entirely on the music for a second, make the choice I need to make, come back. And then I focus entirely on that one student who is struggling with the pose and then I come back. And so it's like, well, I was probably being present on one level to each of those tiny little moments and then a different kind of presence to while I was fully engaged here now in the experience I was creating and recognizing.

But if I was present to those little minute moments, there were probably things I missed.

When it and something that I heard you say twice was, like, come back, like, coming back to the moment. Like, you can go to different places and your attention can can bounce between thing to thing. But through your years of training and practice, you come back. Right? Like, you're in a you you yourself are in your own flow in that class, and you're coming back to any any any any particular moment.

Right? And you're then feeling into, like, okay. What's next? What's next? Like, you know, feeling into, like, the the different moments.

The image that's popping up for me right now is this idea of, like, an airplane control panel Mhmm. With lots of levers and buttons and, you know and I think the experience I'm explaining and I I'm hoping other people can relate to this is I'm having the experience of looking at this whole control panel. And because of a lot of experience, I can start to recognize patterns in things. So, oh, if this series of lights over here starts flashing, something needs to be done or attention needs to be paid somehow. And then in that moment, you probably shift your awareness to whatever that task is, hitting a series of buttons or turning a knob or pulling a lever, whatever the thing is.

And then you come back to, like, okay. No. I've addressed that issue, and now I'm looking at the the control panel again. That to me feels like a kind of presence and I think a kind of presence that most people need. Because if you're right, and I believe you are right that, you know, we're not we don't tend to be great multitaskers.

We're not computers.

That's really that really is doing 2 things at the same time. But I'm like, if I do if I do one thing and then another thing and then another thing consecutively, but but with awareness, you know, congruent with my arc of experience, then it is a kind of presence. So I change the music, I dim the lights, I, adjust my voice. I adjust, you know, I I give a correction to that to that student. I come back. I check. I am being present.

And you're using your awareness of the situation to to navigate. So it's like there's I think maybe this is another topic, but it's the the balance between, like, awareness, presence, consciousness. Mhmm. I don't believe those are synonyms.

So I would just like to go back and say briefly that I think the one thing that we've noticed in all these examples is that whatever the thing is we're doing so in the yoga class example of changing the music, changing the lights, adjusting my voice, noticing where I'm standing, you know, correcting that student. It's all happening right now. I'm not correcting a student for a pose or posture that they did 3 minutes ago.

That's why you don't punish a dog when you get home and they got in the trash. Right? They don't know what they did. They're in the moment.

Yeah. It's out of their it's out of their head now. Yeah. So I think that's a component that we're kind of uncovering. It's like, well, am I still now?

So I'm changing the music now because it needs to change now. I'm changing the lights now because they need to change now. I'm, you know, and

And those are beautiful opportunities to engage in presence practice. You know, like, as you are going about tasks and and things that need to be done, how much awareness can you bring to it to say, like, okay, I am gonna go do this and instead of, like, rushing to the destination, I'm gonna be present as I get there.

So Yeah. And that's the thing we do in the circle a lot, which is why, you know, my teacher talks about this a lot. And so I obviously do now too. Really focus on the transitions because we have a tendency to, oh, we did this practice and now it's done. And now we're gonna do this other practice and it's done.

You're like, well, that is true. But there's also a thread. There is a linking mechanism that is weaving these together to create an experience. And so in transition, we're we're often guided to like slowly and mindfully, you know, go from standing to sitting or from sitting to standing or whatever the thing is. But I think it's meant to encourage us to not pop out of the moment.

And, you know, and I see this all the time in class, There's a break and people immediately change the tempo. They, like, they fall out of their practice. They start to move really quickly. They, you know, they fidget. They, you know, and and you're like, oh, right.

Our habit is to be a super fast moving, future focused, past obsessed beings, and and the practice is asking us to be here now even if here now means we stopped Kapalabhati and now we're gonna stand up for chi generator. And what happens between Kapalabhati and chi generator is also your practice.

Absolutely. It's an opportunity that in that in that transition to continue to stay here and now versus the opposite of there then. Right? Like, sometimes we see a destination where, like, I need to get there by certain times when I've incorporated, like, a future destination and a time. Right?

And so, like, I by doing that, I've actually stopped being here now. I've stopped being present Because I'm now focused and obsessed on the there then. And in those moments of inviting us to, like, mindfully transition, it is that, like, hey, we are going somewhere, I just gave you the there, but don't go there yet. Like, stay in the here now as we get there.

Yeah. I think about the way that I travel and the the the room I like to give myself specifically with regards to time. And you know this, we've talked about this and we've also experienced it. I don't want

to be rushed. Right? Happiness is here and now.

Well, because rushing makes me feel like it rushing really pulls me out of now and and takes me to the the sort of doom full future where I miss my flight or I miss the train or I don't get dinner or whatever the thing is. So I think just like when I say in men's work, you know, one of of the things we do in men's work is help men get out of their heads and into their bodies. And I'm like, well, we don't want to, totally ignore the head or, you know, move entirely away from it. We just want to bring online other things. And the same is true here.

I think what I'm hearing you say is, you know, we don't want to be obsessed with the future. That doesn't mean we don't get to work with it. It doesn't mean we don't live in the real world where I know, okay, I have to be at the airport. My flight is at this time, you know, I should be in security at this time. Then I think presence is feeling into how, how you're doing, what you need and then making some choices based on that.

So for me, those choices are I'd like to leave earlier and I usually set my day up in such a way whenever I can so that I am doing that. So that to me is a one way of conceptualizing. I can think about the future. I can remember the past, both of which can be really valuable. And then I can take that information and try to bring it into my presence practice.

Based on previous experience, I know it takes me approximately 55 minutes to get from Manhattan to LaGuardia at this time of day. And I know that in the future, at this time, I should be boarding the plane, which means I need to be blah blah blah blah. Now with all that information okay. I'm feeling especially anxious today. I might need 15 more extra minutes because of my because of what is happening to me right now.

And then and then obviously life happens. So then sometimes you're like, well, that's not possible because everything's blowing up and you're just gonna be stressed out in the in the cab. I've had that too. Right? And then and then but what I would say is that presence practice can help there too.

So I actually I actually was on the subway. If you've ever lived in New York City, I was on the subway. And when you get on the subway, you relinquish all kinds of control. So and and I have experienced this so many times. You're like, I'm on the Manhattan Bridge, so luckily I have cell service, but something happened and this train is not moving.

And no amount of worry or like fretting is going to change that. And I started to have a conversation with myself or I was like tim, there's nothing you can do. And so I started before I even realized it because this is before I did my coach training, I started coming into a presence practice of like, okay, Tim, so what's happening now is you're feeling anxious because you're nervous you're going to be late for work and it feels like this and sort of connecting to what what is it I'm experiencing right now because there was nothing else I could do.

Yeah. In that moment where even though it may have felt like there was nothing that you can do, there was something really powerful that you could do. You could be present. You made that choice. And I think that's the beauty of this practice is that it helps us, even in challenging times, to find groundedness to make brave, decisions for ourselves because we're we're feeling into the moment, we're feeling into ourselves, we're feeling into others.

And, really, I think that's that's why this presence is so foundational and so important to to the human experience and especially this work.

It taps us into the possibility of other kinds of knowledge and wisdom, whether they are from deep within ourselves or from this shared universal consciousness, however you wanna conceptualize it. What I know from experience is when I'm really present, especially when I'm teaching, facilitating, coaching and I'm really present and I'm not always because it's a practice and sometimes I fail or or or not doing it as well as I would like. When I'm really present, those are the moments where I'm like, wow. I think I think that just went really well. But what's interesting about it is I will often not know I won't I won't exactly know what I said.

Oh, I have an example. I was at a retreat, a men's retreat, and we were having a very intense moment. And, we were in the probably the most intense meeting I had ever been a part of, you know, in this sort of environment with this organization. It was uncomfortable and scary. And my friend, my dear friend said later to me, Tim, you know, what you said at the end of that meeting was so perfect.

It's exactly what we needed, you know. Thank you for that. And I said, thank you so much for reflecting that. I really appreciate it. I said, I have no idea what I said.

Can you tell me? Because the intensity of that moment for as uncomfortable as it was, I think brought us all very present into this time and place. So it's a great example of, well, the right words came. I can't remember what they were. I just know that I must I spoke them from a place of deep presence connected to what was happening in that time.

So then he gave me a sense of what I said later, you know, and it wasn't wildly surprising. It felt pretty logical, you know, or congruent with what was going on. But I didn't remember. I'm like, all I knew was that I had to stop the meeting and take someone away and offer some support. That's what I knew.

And so whatever I said was in service to that thing. And I think when people are in presence, they can tap into that. You may not know exactly what you're saying, but it's coming from this deep place of understanding and of enough purpose, right? This place of what I need is to and then fill in the blank. I need to shine the light of awareness here.

I need to protect this person. I need to whatever the thing is. And so from that place, you're like, well, then it doesn't really matter which words I say as long as they're in service to that. And then I think from that place, the right words very frequently come.

Absolutely. And that's it reminds me of, like, even this podcast, like, as we're recording, I don't know what we're saying. I can't, like, recap because I'm trying to be here with it. And then, like, I can then trust that, like, our audio equipment is gonna, like, capture it for us. Right?

And then that allows me to, like, stay here. And I, like, there have been so many moments in my life that that's happened. Like, giving presentations when I'm, like, really in the pocket giving a presentation or chatting with a friend, like, there are times that you're right, you don't remember what you said. No idea. But you were you know that it it felt right in the moment.

Like, the you the what matters in that moment was the message. And so the vehicle for that isn't as important as I am conveying meaning. I'm conveying value. I'm conveying, heart content, whatever it would be. And so if I use this word or this word, it doesn't really matter as long as the message is being conveyed or the connection is being established and maintained or, you know, whatever the thing is.

And I think a lot of people can probably relate to that. I think so too. And I

think with that, the message loud and clear from today's conversation, you know, and the invitation is to welcome presence as much and as comfortable as it is into your life.

One of the takeaways from today's conversation is to become aware of presence, to welcome it into your life and to begin to practice it. And the the first step of practicing presence is to just become curious. Am I like, if you were just to ask the question, am I how present am I right now? If you ask that question 4 times a day, you might already start to get some insight into like, oh, I'm I'm mindlessly walking through the grocery store sort of following the same path I always take. Or I'm allowing myself the experience of this.

So I think asking that question is important. Step 2 then I would say is start to get really curious about how you're feeling and not not just emotionally feeling, but like physically. Like, well, like, what am I sensing right now? And then the next step would be when I'm in conversation with someone else, can I can I check-in with how I'm feeling or even just one part of me, which is why the soles of the feet or the breath can be so helpful? Can I be aware of that while I'm fully listening to this person?

So if you're brand new to presence, I think those are the 3 steps. Curiosity, what is your own internal, sensational and emotional experience? And then can you have that while maintaining a connection to another person? There's way more to do than that. Like, there's other things after that, but I think do just those three things and watch things transform for you.

Beautifully said and beautiful invitation to our listeners, and I feel very complete. How about you?

As do I, I feel complete.

Uh-huh.

Uh-huh.