Welcome back to The Circle, the podcast where we go all in on men's work, embodiment practice, and personal growth from our queer perspective. If you're enjoying the show, please be sure to share your favorite episode, leave us a review, and subscribe. And if you have any questions about anything you've heard us talk about, please send us a message. We'd love to hear from you. And now onto the show.
Eric Bomyea:Today, we're joined by Tim Neal, a men's transformation and embodiment coach. Since 2012, Tim's been guiding men through personal breakthroughs using psychology, neuroscience, and good old fashioned presence. He's here to help us explore parts work, how understanding and embracing the different voices within us can lead to deeper self awareness, compassion, and growth, and why that loud inner critic might just be asking for a hug after all. Tim and Tim, are you ready to go all in? I'm ready.
Eric Bomyea:Ready. Alright. Let's do this. Tim, thank you so much. Well, actually, Tim Neal, thank you so much for being here with us today.
Tim Neal:It's a it's a joy. A real pleasure. Thanks for having me.
Eric Bomyea:So I just wanna start at the top. For folks who may be hearing the phrase parts work for the first time, what is it?
Tim Neal:Well, I remember back to when I was 12. This is the first time. Of course, I didn't have the the language then, but this was the first time that I really felt a part of me come out. And I walked into my my lounge room at the time, and mom was sitting there on the couch. And I wasn't well.
Tim Neal:I was sick. I was ill. And all I wanted was a a hug or just to sit on the couch with mom and watch TV. And I threw a tantrum, and she just looked at me in what I perceived as, like, disgust. And I stomped and ran out of the the lounge room and went to my bedroom, and I remember falling to my knees with and with tears coming down my face, I just felt so alone.
Tim Neal:And this part of me came up, this rageful angry part. And as I was crying, the voice within me said, I will never fucking do this again. This is weak. And then in that moment, this part started leading my life. And I didn't cry or express anger.
Tim Neal:I have much emotionality at all for the next fifteen to twenty years. Now that was my first instance into parts work. Now fast forward many years, there's language and there's models and and we can dig into that. However, as it's sort of written parts work is there's many parts of us, and it comes from doctor Richard Swartz. Actually, he was a family therapist based out I think Chicago, Illinois.
Tim Neal:And back in the eighties, he started knowing and understanding that a lot of these patients are coming in and talking this language of parts. A part of me wants to do this, a part of me wants to do that. Perhaps you guys can relate, I know I could. And he started using this and created this model known as IFS, Internal Family Systems. And then over the years, I blended IFS and also shadow work, which I'm sure you guys are well aware of, into this model of parts work and helping guys really create freedom and peace within.
Timothy Bish:I'm gonna jump in really quickly because I wanna you brought it up, and I think a lot of people listening are gonna be familiar with shadow work or they may have heard it. And to me, I always felt like shadow work was a slice of parts work. It always felt like the parts of me that I was trying so hard to not look at or to not let anyone else look at. So I I I wanna throw back at you and ask, do you think the shadow work, as we understand it, is one slice of parts work? Because my understanding is that parts work can also be great parts.
Timothy Bish:The hardworking part, the loving part, the nurturing part, and the lonely part, the scared part, the, you know, whatever part. And so to me, it always felt like shadow work was a slice. Do you also see it that way? And if not, how do you see it?
Tim Neal:Yeah. Great insight, Tim. I do see it that way. And as you or as I started looking into and experiencing path work within myself, I realized, like, the shadow at my first introduction to shadow work was after a really hard breakup back in 2017. I started reading the book, The Dark Side of the Light Chasers by Debbie Ford.
Tim Neal:Incredible book. Yeah. And she started talking of shadow. And these these parts of us that exactly what you're saying, like, just feel perhaps less than the darker side, but there's parts of us that we've been too afraid of to actually move into and express and that helped liberate me. So I see it as shadow is a part of parts work and more so in there's the darkness of the shadow.
Tim Neal:So I loved how you you mentioned, Tim, that there's also the positive side or or the light side of our parts, and they've always got positive intent, of course, our parts trying to protect us, and and there's different sort of fragments of parts, and shadow is just one of those.
Eric Bomyea:So I wanna get curious a little bit about that moment as a boy when you're back in your bedroom and you hear this part of yourself basically being born, this part that is saying never again and how that part stuck with you for so many years and kind of held a presence in your life that was prohibitive to your expression of emotion. So that part of you, how did that part evolve over time? And did it serve a purpose?
Tim Neal:Absolutely. It did. So as I grew into a teenager and a young man, that part and we'll call that the part of just feeling like vulnerability because that's what I felt was at my most vulnerable. And then my primary caretaker would shut it down, let's call it. So vulnerability became this part of me that was just in the shadows.
Tim Neal:Just like I can't be vulnerable, can't express anger. So I was close to anger. I can't express sadness, and it was all wrapped in shame. So I went on with my life and this other part came in known as the achievement part, The perfectionist let me do everything right.
Eric Bomyea:I know him. Mhmm. Mhmm.
Tim Neal:Many men know him very well. And then I just achieved. I just achieved my way through high school, through young adulthood, achieve, achieve, especially in the sporting realm. That was my sort of go to. And it really had positive intent and served me.
Tim Neal:I achieved some great things. However, in my mid twenties actually, I had been into, like, personal development on some level, like and it started all with, a gratitude journal. I heard something somewhere in my mid teens and it was all performance based. So that part, that achievement part, I wanted to perform really well. I was like, oh, this gratitude journal thing, I've heard this can help.
Tim Neal:Let me get grateful and write stuff down. And so I had quite an early indoctrination into sort of personal development or self improvement, but it was predicated on not being enough. It wasn't until my mid twenties. I remember me and two buddies were in in Melbourne, Australia, and Tony Robbins was coming to Australia. And he was gonna be in Sydney, which is about ten hours away, you know, short hour and a half, two hour plane flight until my buddies and I got tickets.
Tim Neal:And we went there and we sat in the room and for four hours, he just blew the ceiling off. Was like, holy, holy shit. Then he had his next program coming up and my two buddies bought tickets to that. And at the time, I was stuck in these limiting beliefs. I was working in fitness, full time in fitness, and I couldn't justify the time off work and the money to go up to Sydney and, you know, let alone the event ticket.
Tim Neal:So I was like, no, you guys go. And about a week before the event, one of my buddies comes to me and says, I can't go. I've got something on. I really can't go. Will you take my ticket?
Tim Neal:And I was like, no. I can't you know, it's too much and this and that. He said, look. Take the ticket. Just pay me whatever you can later.
Tim Neal:And I sat with her and something within me said, just need to go. So I went with a group of friends and that event shifted everything. And it shifted one thing in particular. I'm sitting there on the on the floor, but and Tony Robbins walks straight past me, and he's this huge guy. Huge guy.
Tim Neal:He's got this always, got this presence. And love him or or hate him, he's got presence and an energy about him. And he stood about 10 feet away from me and I was looking at this giant of a man and he was talking about his wife and his relationship and tears were just streaming down his face. No different than that 12 year old boy but he had a presence and he wasn't afraid of his vulnerability. And in that moment, what happened was something within me woke up and it said, that's real strength.
Tim Neal:Mhmm. Not this closed off, balled off, emotionless, stoic young man that had been showing up for the last fifteen years. And I gave myself permission. A new role model was formed for me to step further into, and then over the years, obviously, you know, I've become my own man. I've done a lot of work in in with Tony and and the teams there, and that's a beautiful part of my journey.
Tim Neal:But that was that was a pivotal moment in my developmentation.
Timothy Bish:I'd like to ask you thank you for sharing that story. It does feel to me like one of the biggest challenges that people, but in this case men, are facing is this want or desire or expectation that we are one thing. So I am an accomplished man who is x, y, and z, and I have this idea. And so when we aren't able to maintain that or achieve that at all times, we start to crumble. And it feels like heart's work is a recognition of a vast landscape of possibility for each person and that I can be both strong.
Timothy Bish:Maybe I'm naturally strong at work or I'm naturally strong at whatever, you know, activity I enjoy. And then in other places, I am less so, and I I can have this sort of nuanced personal landscape of my life. Can you talk a little bit about that? The idea that maybe there's a pressure to be one thing and the value that we can get if we recognize all the things that we might be simultaneously.
Tim Neal:Yeah. I love that. I love what you're bringing in, Tim, because I often say we are all things. Again, something I learned from that book, Dark Side Light Chases. We are all things.
Tim Neal:And when I read that, I thought, what does that actually mean? And then over time bringing parts, it makes so much sense. I was in a coaching session the other day working with a man and he kept on referring to himself as I'm just so anxious. I'm just so anxious. I'm just so anxious.
Tim Neal:And I paused, held space to that pause and said, how does it feel when you say a part of me is anxious? All this lightness was, oh, wow. Just a part of me. And this comes from what doctor Schwartz realized that often we refer to ourselves in in what's known as the mono mind, which is a one mind. To your point.
Tim Neal:Yeah. I am just one thing.
Timothy Bish:I never wait. But I just gotta stop and say, like, I had I hadn't heard that concept. And for our listeners, like, Tim and I have been working together and known each other for, what, four years now? We haven't talked about this. So I wasn't I wasn't queuing you up, but I love that there's this thing.
Timothy Bish:Okay. So keep going, please. I'm ex I'm feeling excited now.
Eric Bomyea:Yeah. So
Tim Neal:instead of referring to ourselves in the mono mind, and I I I've done this and I still do this. I'm on this path. However, whenever we can interrupt with a part of me, that gives us space to know that it's actually we're multiple minded. We're not just one thing. We're not just always grateful.
Tim Neal:We're not just always calm and present. However, we're not just always angry or shameful or fearful. So that in itself allows space and a healthy self acceptance oh, we are all things. Now let's not forget we have free will. We can make choice.
Tim Neal:And that's where our real humanness comes in. So I like to look at it. One is more of a human conversation, what we're experiencing and sensing in this reality right now. But then as we develop and as we grow, we have start to have access for, let's just call it more, the spiritual realm, and that's where oneness comes back in. So I gotta balance both because I love being in this physical world, but I also there's nothing quite like when you're just deeply connected to something bigger than ourselves or spirit energy, god, whatever label we wanna put on it.
Timothy Bish:So I I definitely want us to go deeper into the spiritual aspect that you're talking about. But before we do, you mentioned something that I really like, which is the pattern interrupt. So can you speak a little bit for people who don't know, what is a pattern interrupt? Why is it valuable? And how does it or how is it included in embodiment work and men's work as as we have engaged in it?
Tim Neal:Great question. So briefly, a pattern interrupt is this interrupting a pattern that the mind is so used to performing familiar. So an example may be, let's just say, back when I was early no. Mid mid twenties, young man, I had this goal and dream to go overseas and become a ski instructor because I grew up on the ski slopes here in Australia. We do have a a few hills here.
Tim Neal:And I just wanted to go over to Canada and ski because I loved it. Freedom. So I went over there and did a year in Vancouver. It was magic. Loved it.
Tim Neal:It was really challenging also. And as I taught skiing, as you ski or snowboard, what happens to the snow? Right? Your skis and snowboards make a groove in the snow. And then if you keep going down the hill in those grooves, it gets easier and easier and easier.
Tim Neal:Neural pathways in our brain are exactly the same thing.
Timothy Bish:Just to you said neural pathways in the neural pathways in the brain are the same as the grooves in the snow.
Tim Neal:Yeah. Yeah. What we fire so if we keep skiing in those grooves, it wires together stronger and stronger and stronger neuroscience. So the good news is then we can also pattern interrupt over time. So if we have a belief, let's say, which is nothing more than a thought of certainty or a thought that we believe to be true and we've fired and wired that usually for many years from those imprint years from two to seven, then first is the awareness of heart.
Tim Neal:Is this belief or is this thought or is this part really serving? And if so, how? Because there's always a positive payoff. Otherwise, it wouldn't exist. So the interrupt is a real self discovery and a self awareness piece of growth, of just understanding ideally with compassion, ideally with curiosity, not from a real strong inner critic, which most of us have, on there's a pattern here, and usually patterns come out in behaviors that I can start to interrupt or this part that I can start to integrate more beautifully within me through interrupting patterns of thought and or being and belief.
Eric Bomyea:Very interesting. So if I'm understanding correctly, and if we use the example of you as a young man who is seeing Tony Robbins give you this new model of masculinity of like there's a strong man in front of me with presence who is also demonstrating vulnerability. What it sounds like was a pattern interrupt to the part of you that was leading your life predominantly, which was this stoic suppressed emotion version of yourself. And so through that pattern interrupt of seeing this new example, did a new part of you start to come online? Or were you able to work with that stoic part of you in a different way?
Eric Bomyea:So that's where I'm a little curious about how does this start to work so that as we shift and evolve and go through our personal growth, how do these parts work together and how do we acknowledge them and honor them at the same time?
Tim Neal:So there was a pattern interrupt for sure because the old belief was vulnerability is weakness, and I can't cry and I can't emote. The external through this role model interrupted that pattern of thought, but also that part, they're much, much the sameness. And a new belief started to be formed, like, this is vulnerability and strength all in one. So then that part of me that was online started to relax. An incredibly important part of parts work is understanding that our parts are there to serve us, usually to protect.
Tim Neal:There's two types of parts generally. One is more protective and the other part is more parts more vulnerable known as protectors or managers and exiles. Now exiles are the ones that the protectors are protecting. The managers are sort of managing all our life and our behaviors to protect these young vulnerable parts within us.
Timothy Bish:I just wanna go back to the example then. The part of you in the story you told about when you were not feeling well, looking for your mom, there was a part of you that wanted to be cared for, wanted to be nurtured, wanted to be sheltered, whatever. You know? Would that that part of you is in the exile slice. Am I right?
Timothy Bish:And then the part of you the part of you that changed, that recognized what was what what was helping, what was serving, what was protecting you, that became the protector. So is that am I hearing you right?
Tim Neal:Spot on.
Timothy Bish:Yes. Sorry to interrupt, but I wanna make Nice. Clear because it because it felt like there were there were many parts in that story that were that were collaborating in the experience of your life.
Tim Neal:Yeah. But you nailed it, Tim. The young part, the vulnerable part that just wanted to be loved and held and comforted, pain fought. And often we have this where trauma comes in. Trauma's often what has happened, what didn't happen as well.
Tim Neal:So I didn't get the love, the comfort, what I needed. So that exiled it gets exiled. That's why where the name comes. It gets exiled. A protector is born.
Tim Neal:This isn't happening again. I'll protect you.
Timothy Bish:Okay. I'm gonna jump in because I'm you and I have not talked about this, but I am curious now. Would you argue that they often come in pairs?
Tim Neal:Yeah. Well, now you're getting deeper in the parts.
Timothy Bish:I mean, is why we this is why we have you here. Like, because it seems to me then I can think of so many experiences in my own life and in the story that you just so beautifully illustrated where one did not exist without the other. Like, they oh, the the creation of one was to serve the other. So and you're smiling. So I'm I'm assuming that maybe I'm intuiting a thing that many people who are more familiar with parts work already know.
Timothy Bish:Am I right?
Tim Neal:There's always a polarity, of course. Light and dark.
Timothy Bish:Beautifully said.
Tim Neal:And that both are beautiful and served. So two things about parts work that have really helped me in understanding and and really crucial. One is that it's not about getting rid of parts. Often I hear guys say, I just need to get rid of this or there's so much criticism towards a part of them. Maybe it's a part that's not productive.
Tim Neal:Maybe it's a part that's more vulnerable. Maybe it's a part that we don't like. It's caused us pain. So the first is it's not about getting rid of parts. It's actually about healthily integrating those parts.
Tim Neal:And I love how Schwartz talks about often you think of like think of a smoothie, it's all blended together. We're not going for that. We're going for the fruit salad and really honoring each part for the part of us that they have been, but also coming into a healthy integration and not allowing those parts to lead. Those parts are with us. That's what's called internal internal family systems.
Tim Neal:They're families. We're not getting rid of family members. We're just learning how to beautifully dance with those parts.
Eric Bomyea:How to be all
Timothy Bish:things. Yeah.
Tim Neal:Exactly. And the second
Eric Bomyea:We're not just the grapes. We're not just the watermelon. We are all the parts. We are all things.
Tim Neal:Absolutely. Now you may have preference. You might like the grapes more, the watermelon. I know I like pineapple probably the most. But can we come into that healthy integration?
Tim Neal:Which brings me to knowing this could be a good sort of move into the spiritual realm here is there's this centered cell. I call it the centered self. It's known as capital s self. That's a place within you. It's not a part that was there when we're born that can never be can never die.
Tim Neal:Our beingness, another way, the spirit within. And what I've witnessed within my own life, within many men's lives, is when we touch in on that part, the centered self, let's call it that for clarity's sake, our centered self just knows. Our centered self is characterized by these beautiful qualities, calmness and courage and compassion, a few others. And that is where and if there is a goal, goal is constant evolution in my world. However, if there was a goal is to live more from that place, the centered self.
Timothy Bish:I'm gonna go back because I believe that we live in a world currently where the desire is to identify a problem and then eliminate it, solve it. So when you when you said it's not the goal for us to get rid of a part, I think it's really important, so I wanna come back. Because there, I think, is a tendency for us to want to, oh, that part, that lonely part of me. Well, you're the problem. I just need to get if I just get rid of you, my problem is gone.
Timothy Bish:And the the analogy that's popping up for me is the sprained ankle and the swelling. And we've all seen this so many times. Be like, I have to get the swelling down. The swelling the problem. Swelling.
Timothy Bish:Swelling is the problem. We have to ice it. We have to, like, ibuprofen. We do whatever the thing is. But the swelling is actually part of the healing.
Timothy Bish:The swelling is a a part of the process that we have culturally come to think of as, like, not good. When in reality, that's what our body is doing to help heal the problem that is happening. And so it feels the same way to be like this part of me that is lonely or the part of me that is scared or the part of me and and by recognizing it as a part of our process and our healing, we can approach it in a very different way. So I wanted to reiterate that because it isn't you're the problem and I get rid of you because then that to me feels like it takes us away from what you just spoke about the centered self. And rather if we think of it as an integral part of our process, then instead of getting rid of the lonely part, I can recognize, oh, you're here for a reason.
Timothy Bish:I can get curious about it. Well, why? Why are you here? Why are you here? Why are you here?
Timothy Bish:I don't need you to leave. I need to know why you're here. And then I I have to imagine, this is my question to you now, is that exploration and curiosity around these parts of us that we may feel tempted to want to eliminate a manner in which we can get closer to our centered self?
Tim Neal:Absolutely. Short answer is yes. I love your I love your analogy of the ankle. And to go that and take that a step further, often, I know I have and many men treat the ankle and go, the ankle's a problem. Let's cut it off.
Tim Neal:Let's eliminate. Let's just cut off the ankle. What? Yeah. What if we understand the ankle?
Tim Neal:What's really happening there? Is there anything underlying that's causing dysfunction in the ankle? Yeah. Let's heal. Let's heal with the ankle, with that part of us.
Tim Neal:Now that we've got a new awareness and I have this really strong part and I've done a lot of work on it that's being a critic really hard on myself, incredibly hard on myself. Remember as a teenager, I look in the mirror and I would despise and hate what I saw. The dark features, the acne, and I'll just look with disdain. That was my inner critic. That was that part that was born that protector.
Tim Neal:Yeah. I've learned to love that part of me. Does he still pop up at times? Absolutely. And that's where awareness and some emotional mastery is needed to come inwards.
Tim Neal:What I call meet that part. Yeah.
Eric Bomyea:So I just heard you say emotional mastery. And so working with arts does require a little bit of awareness where we have to be aware that there is this part of us and then also the emotional intelligence and capacity to be able to sit with a part and bring in compassion, bring in curiosity, these things that do require a heightened emotional intelligence to to be able to sit with them. So how do you use that emotional intelligence, that emotional mastery to work with a part that may not be the favorable part? Right? Again, we're not trying to eliminate it.
Eric Bomyea:We're not trying to eliminate the critic. We're not trying to eliminate the stoic. We are trying to bring in curiosity. How? And then through that curiosity, how do we then manage that part?
Eric Bomyea:If we're not getting rid of the part, what do we do with the part?
Tim Neal:Great questions. So I invite both of you if you're interested in practicing with this. It won't be long, but we wanna meet our parts. And you you mentioned, Eric, it takes a little bit of awareness. I would say it takes a lot of awareness.
Tim Neal:And in our busy modern world where we're overstimulated and there's so much out there, a lot of it incredible, I think it's mastery as a man. And I use that term loosely because can we ever master anything or do we just go to another level with it? I like to think of progress over perfection because mastery in my world can mean perfection. I don't believe in that anymore. Another pattern interrupt by the way.
Tim Neal:So the awareness piece is to me Men's Work 101. How aware are we in any given moment? How much presence and awareness can we bring to this moment? My internal world, which we're talking about parts, and also an integration of the external. That's a beautiful part of life.
Tim Neal:So let's go to the how and meet our parts. So take a moment. Just go inwards. Deepen your breath if that helps. And just notice within you if there's a part that's a little bit more alive or part you want to work with.
Tim Neal:Is it that inner critic? Is it the stoic or a judgmental part? Is it more of a afraid part? There's no right or wrong here. You may feel it in your body.
Tim Neal:You may feel it in your mind. It may come through as vision, sensations. Just sense. And if you've got a part that you wanna work with in this moment, just raise your hands so I can see it.
Timothy Bish:I mean, I have my my director part. It's pretty loud right now.
Tim Neal:Director?
Timothy Bish:Thinking about, yeah, thinking about all the things that are currently happening in this moment. What part is yours?
Eric Bomyea:Mine's the inner critic. Anytime I'm sitting in this chair, there is a part of me that is so hyper aware of messing up, saying the wrong thing, looking stupid.
Tim Neal:So go ahead and just focus in on that inner critic and that director. Just notice where that part may live within you. Is it in mind or it is in body? In the best that you can, just notice how you feel towards that part, if there's a judgment or not. If there's a judgment, like you want to get rid of it, just go ahead and ask that part to step aside.
Tim Neal:Reassure that part if it's there. You just want to get to know this part, this director or inner critic. Now see if you can just bring some curiosity, some compassion to this part, this part of you that may be critical or directive. Then if you found that curiosity and compassion, just go ahead and ask it like you would another person, perhaps a small child. Go ahead and ask it, Why does it love to do what it's doing within you?
Tim Neal:Why is it doing that? Just listen. Notice if that part is willing to or give you anything. If it does, it's great. You've got some trust.
Tim Neal:And if it doesn't, that's Okay too. Go ahead and ask it, what does it fear most? What's it really afraid of? Saying as curious and compassionate as you can. What's it afraid of?
Timothy Bish:My director part is actually a really positive part of me. Mhmm. And it's afraid it's fear. What I just intuited was afraid of wasting people's time. Mhmm.
Timothy Bish:So it wants to be really mindful about how we're doing the podcast and the sound and the technology and your time and Eric's time and, you know, our listeners' time. That's what popped up for me. Came for you.
Eric Bomyea:The first thing is that my inner critic is here to protect. He's here to protect me from looking stupid. And there is a fear of letting people down.