Welcome back to The Circle, a podcast where we go all in on men's work, body man practices, and personal growth from our queer perspective. If you're enjoying the show, please be sure to share your favorite episode and leave us a review. If you're curious about the work that we do or the practices we've mentioned on the show, head on over to myembodiment.com to join our new community. Practice along with us and ask us questions about anything you've heard us talk about. Now on to today's show.
Eric Bomyea:This episode, we're exploring what it means to truly belong versus where and why we try to fit in, and what parts of ourselves do we hide when we do. Kim, are you ready to go all in? I'm ready. Let's do this. So let's just start at the top.
Timothy Bish:How do you define the difference between belonging versus fitting in? Belonging would be the ability to show up as your authentic self without need to edit or curate in any way. And fitting in would be a very specific and conscious decision to amplify certain aspects of ourselves that we think are acceptable or wanted by whatever group we're in and to pull back or diminish aspects that we think they're not going to like. And therefore, curating aspects of our own authentic self so that whoever my observer is is gonna find me more palatable. So it's really about feeling into another person or another group of people or a situation and deciding what what you might think they want and then trying to give that to them.
Timothy Bish:And then, obviously, over time, getting clues, oh, they want more of this, they want less of that, and making subtle shifts to I'll I'll just keep giving them what I think it is they want. And my idea of what they want might get clearer and clearer based on evidence. But in so doing, I will betray these other parts of me that that may be really valuable. Why do you think
Eric Bomyea:it is that we betray these parts of ourselves? And do you think is underneath that conscious or subconscious desire to fit in?
Timothy Bish:Well, know, we are social beings. We are designed to exist in groups. And a lot of our safety and survival was based on being a welcomed and protected member of of our group. So it doesn't it isn't surprising that we have that impulse. What's tricky, though, now is that we have all these other pressures.
Timothy Bish:So it can be you know, if we think about back in the day, you're like, well, we're all probably roughly wearing the same thing, and we're all roughly doing the same thing. You know? And now we have all these different other things that can separate us. And so I think it's heightened. What outfit I wear can make a difference depending on who I'm trying to appeal to.
Timothy Bish:How I speak, my word choices, how I choose to spend my free time. Because we have so many more options now, we can start to get more and more particular about what, like, what it is we like or don't like, what we feel comfortable around or what we don't feel comfortable around. You know, as an example, I was this is such a long time ago, but I was dating a fashion stylist. You know, he had an incredible sense of fashion. He would often, like, pick out my outfits for me, which I love because it's not a thing I care about.
Timothy Bish:But not that I don't care about it, but I wasn't very good at it. And so I'm like, oh, well, you know, I I could do this. Anyway, I remember one time having dinner with a friend of mine and her husband, a friend from high school, a middle school, this person I knew very, very well. And she admitted she was like, oh, we got really nervous when we heard that your boyfriend was a fashion stylist because we were like we became self conscious about what we were gonna wear or or if what we had chosen to wear was good enough. And I remember in that moment thinking, oh, there was a pressure because there's this idea of what is fashion.
Timothy Bish:And you kind of know it or don't know it. And, you know, and so it's an example of, well, what if I'm just really comfortable in this outfit and you don't think it's fashion? For some of us, you're like, well, who cares? But for others, it might be the thing that continues to keep you in the
Eric Bomyea:group or pushes you out of the group. Right. In this case too, maybe there's a little part about they were wanting to make an impression, they wanted this person to like them. So I do start to see that there is that hyper awareness is that they are presenting themselves in an effort to fit in, or to impress, or to make some sort of impression that is favorable from another person. And so that's actually a really great example of the thing in.
Eric Bomyea:I will put on a different outfit to impress somebody else. Versus would be like, well, I'm going to put on this outfit that I want to wear and person across from me and have an opinion on it or not, but I'm still
Timothy Bish:gonna belong with them. And I think in this example, belonging would also look like you know, because we live in a world with, you know, social constructs. Right? So, oh, I have to wear a suit to this event because that is what is expected in my industry and, you know, and I and I want and choose to be a professional. Great.
Timothy Bish:So you wear a suit. But at that point, it's like, but then if you're when you're choosing your suit, are you choosing it because it's the thing that makes you feel the best? Or I'm choosing it because I think all these other people are gonna like it more or like me more in it. And and I I do sort of wanna talk about, especially when you don't like, I don't have a great fashion sense, and I I live in athletic wear most of the time. Sometimes I'm like, I will ask people's opinion because I'm genuinely curious.
Timothy Bish:Like, I I I would like you to help me curate this thing, which is very different than I'm gonna try to make each choice based on I think you'll like so that you'll like me. So, you know, there's a little distinction there of maybe you don't maybe you're not expert in something and you are looking to other people. That's different than I'm looking I'm gonna curate my my behavior and my choices so that you'll like me. Because I do I do often want to look good, and I often am like, oh, I think this looks good, but I don't really know. Yeah.
Eric Bomyea:But I'm curious. Like I like like when you look at it, like what do you see? Right? Because I think that's what we're getting at. So I mean there's still a part that's like, why are you looking outward?
Eric Bomyea:And this isn't a criticism, this is a game of sorts. Like looking at it. So it's like, when you put something on, how does it make you feel?
Timothy Bish:Well, so this is the thing. I recognize that there are different skill sets and art forms. And so I feel like I recognize that fashion and color combinations are not the thing that I excel at. So I will I will look when I look at an outfit, I will mainly look at sort of fit. I'm also I tend to keep it pretty low key.
Timothy Bish:You know, a buttoned on shirt and a pair of slacks, jeans and a T shirt, you know, that kind of thing. I mean, like, this shirt that I'm wearing right now feels, like, fashion y for me. You know? Although I got this, like, I don't know, three seasons ago. Anyway, I still really like it.
Timothy Bish:But it's pretty simple. If I need to get it if I need to be a little bit more, then I then I seek help. I I'd be willing to wear whatever I wanted, I guess. I just feel like I don't know. It's like even though, like, seeking help with how to look good,
Eric Bomyea:I think in a different context, could be like, hey, I need your help navigating this social situation, because I'm having a hard time navigating it. When I try to do it on my own, it doesn't feel like I'm being accepted by the group. So I need a little bit of help to fit in. That's kind of what that sounds like to me. It's like I'm trying to present a part of me that I like, but doesn't always fit the theme or whatever it might be.
Eric Bomyea:Right. And so I'm asking for a little bit of support on how to navigate this in a sense so that I can be in that environment and feel like I fit in.
Timothy Bish:Right. Yeah, I think that's the thing. If I had a fashion sense that I was choosing not to present because I was afraid people wouldn't like it, that feels very different than I don't actually have much of a fashion sense. And so I'm looking for guidance because I'm, like, trying to fill in a deficit, you know, that I have.
Eric Bomyea:But what is that that deficit?
Timothy Bish:I mean, what are you trying to accomplish with curating an outfit? Well, I mean, I guess it depends on the context and where you're going. But the idea would be I would like to I almost always want to look good and feel good in what I'm wearing. And feel good in what I'm wearing is really important for me, especially as a fitness yoga person. Right?
Timothy Bish:I want I want to look good and feel good in what I'm wearing. And then there are context when, oh, that but I don't I don't ask people's opinions about what I wear to teach fitness or yoga. I'm like, this this is you know, it's pretty basic. It feels good. It works.
Timothy Bish:Let's go. It's when I get to the realm of, oh, if if you were gonna send me to the Met Gala. Oh, okay. I need a little guidance. But because it's not my it's not my medium.
Eric Bomyea:But like the person that shows up to the Met Gala wearing whatever they want to wear, like might stick out. Right? And in that sense, they may not fit in. They're going to stand out. Right?
Eric Bomyea:So like Yeah, the Met Gala is a bad example.
Timothy Bish:Was trying to stand out.
Eric Bomyea:Right. But I think like this is what I'm trying to get at here is that like, you know, based off of what we're wearing, if we are outsourcing the opinion of what it is that we're wearing, why is it that we're doing that? And in what effort? Is it to look good for others, or is it to look good for ourselves?
Timothy Bish:Well, I mean, okay. So we this example, we are looking to experts in areas where we're not expert. This happens all the time. So people come to me and ask me questions about yoga. They ask me questions about fitness.
Timothy Bish:They ask me questions about, you know, Chinese medicine or whatever because I am more expert than they are, chances are, if they're asking me. And and it it isn't as if they're abandoning part of themselves in that. They're like, well, you know more, so I'm coming to you. And so in the fashion example, it's like, well, you know more, so I'm coming to you, which is very different than I know exactly what I wanna wear or I know exactly what I wanna do, and I choose not to because I'm afraid you won't like it if I wear that or do that. So when we think about fitting in, fitting in is I'm gonna get a sense of what I think you want me to look like, you want me to sound like, you want me to do, and then I'm gonna curate how I show up consistent with that as opposed to I'm gonna I'm gonna do whatever I want based on my own compass.
Timothy Bish:So the fashion example is I don't really have my own compass. So looking for expert is not I don't I don't think looking for expert advice, especially in areas of deficit, is is trying to fit in versus belonging. I think it's filling a gap. Yeah. Mean, my cynical brain is like the fashion industry is trying
Eric Bomyea:to teach us how to fit in, how to mold ourselves so that we ask these questions, that we hire people or go to stores to buy things in an effort to fit in, to follow a trend, to follow whatever. So that's what I'm getting from it versus we go to a doctor or a fitness expert because we don't have an understanding of how to do a certain thing, or we are trying to fit a mold of something else. Or maybe we're trying to belong a little bit more in our bodies. Maybe there is a sense of like, oh, maybe there's a deficit inside of my body, and I'm trying to figure out how to belong more in it. Or maybe I'm trying to reshape my body to better fit in someplace else.
Eric Bomyea:So I still think that a decision can be made consciously to seek out expertise in something that we have a deficit of in an attempt still to fit in.
Timothy Bish:Yes. Yeah. Think that's accurate. I don't think that's always true, but I think it is can be true, could be true, is probably true in in many instances. Yeah.
Timothy Bish:So like So but so fitting in is making conscious choices to curate a part of you based on your your understanding of the expectations of your audience. Right? And belonging would be just showing up, feeling feeling free to show up as fully as you can. So, yeah, I don't we shouldn't get too much deeper into any one particular example because we could fit in or try to fit in in almost any aspect of our life. What do I, you know, what do I choose to eat or not eat?
Timothy Bish:What do I choose to do or not do? What do I choose to wear or not wear? What do I choose to watch or not watch? You know, like, the potential for it is everywhere. And and so it's really about, I think, what is your what is your personal intention?
Timothy Bish:Like, how are you wanting to show up? And also, do you feel safe enough to be you? Do you feel safe enough to show up and say, oh, here's a part of me you may not like, but it's it's so valuable to me. I'm unwilling to let it go. The difference between outsourcing.
Eric Bomyea:The opinion of self versus internally validating it. Say like, I'm doing this thing and I believe in it, so I'm going to do it, or I'm going to wear it, it or might be. So curious, what do you think makes true belonging possible and true ability to express authenticity possible? What are those conditions that make that possible for some people?
Timothy Bish:I think that it's the person and the environment. I think if, as we said, if you feel safe enough, you can show up fully. My personal experience has been that a lot of people were all so accustomed to trying to fit in. That really raw authenticity and unapologetic being of self can feel very unsettling, unfamiliar. So I think even really thoughtful, loving, caring people sometimes don't know how to handle just a raw expression of authentic self.
Timothy Bish:I think that makes it harder then for a person who's interested in doing that to do that when you see your friends struggling to manage that experience. And and, you know, I think we live in a world, and as you said, the fashion industry, I'm sorry, like the cosmetic industry and the Supplemental They are we we are being inundated with messaging about how it is we are supposed to be. And so it isn't surprising that most of us are sort of conditioned and trained to do that. So so then when someone can't meet you there, that feels a little isolating. You know?
Timothy Bish:And I've and I've personally had this experience a lot where I show up in a way and people don't people don't know what to do. So especially now as an older person and a a bigger sort of muscle y sort of person, sometimes people are really thrown when I demonstrate my sort of effulgent playfulness. And I'm like, but that's really a part of me. And I've I've actually struggled with it in moments when I can see almost a flash of disappointment across someone's face, when I'm not sort of showing up in a very stern mask for mask sort of thing. Know?
Timothy Bish:I'm like, oh, I'll dance or I'll make a joke or I'll laugh or, you know, whatever. And and it can that has a that has a feeling that has a residue. So even even if I'm committed to my authentic expression, I will sometimes have to metabolize, oh, I I'm sensing that that person is uncomfortable with this. And now person's the person holding that means it will be me. Or whatever person is trying to show up in whatever they would the way they want.
Timothy Bish:What's interesting was, you know, when I was in the volleyball league, golf and volleyball in New York City, which I really, really loved and made a lot of friends and spent many, many seasons doing, I was unbelievably competitive. We might have talked about this already. I was unbelievably competitive. I really wanted to win the point and I would like scream something like, you know. And then I would do a high kick and like and like a silly dance.
Timothy Bish:And people sometimes were really shocked that I would switch so quickly. But it was all me. It was all authentic parts of me. Like the I really wanna win this point. I want you to play well and I wanna play well and then I wanna beat you.
Timothy Bish:Because that's when it'll feel the best. Right? And and then I wanna celebrate and make my friends laugh. And there'll be times where people are just like, I don't understand this thing happening in front of me. And when you recognize, oh, this person doesn't understand me, that can feel very isolating.
Eric Bomyea:That that scenario of of bringing fullness, not being accepted, and being like, oh, what about me? Like, don't you like or isn't accepted? And is that a part of me that I now have to start hiding or adjusting or adapting? Do I have to tune down the competitiveness? Do I have to turn up the effulgence in more places?
Eric Bomyea:Do I have to tune that down? Like, what I mean, yeah. The mental processing that takes, like I've been there, and I will say too, the times that I have felt more lonely is when I've actually done everything in my brain correctly to fit in. I've worn the right outfit. I've said the right things.
Eric Bomyea:I'm hanging out with the right people. I feel so alone because I'm not myself. Yeah. So I feel lonely with myself. Yeah.
Eric Bomyea:Even if I so I might fit in. I fit in with
Timothy Bish:the group. I feel incredibly alone. Yeah. Because because you're aware of the parts that you didn't bring to the party with you. Yeah.
Timothy Bish:I mean, the some of the darkest and most despondent moments of my life have been when I've been in that feeling that my true authentic self just isn't welcome here. You know? And I've said this. I've said I'm like, oh, there are moments when I feel like I just don't belong here. Because whatever it is that I am, whatever combination of factors that I am, seems to be really hard for most people to want, like, or invite.
Timothy Bish:That is unbelievably sad. And I think a lot of people probably can relate to that, except we don't really talk about it, which is why I have felt that way. I have felt like that all by myself. And I'm assuming most people who are feeling that way also are doing it all by themselves. Because you're like, oh, there isn't there aren't many places where I feel like I truly belong.
Timothy Bish:And so therefore, well, what's the matter with me? And then you look around the world and, you know, of course, we're all doing this sort of showmanship sort of Instagram style life thing where you're like, well, it looks like everyone else is belonging just fine. And not even just belonging fine. They are arriving. You're like, you're living the greatest life.
Timothy Bish:Everyone loves you, And and I'm over here like a weirdo that like, you know, I do think that's probably a more common experience.
Eric Bomyea:And it's, you know, it's sad to it's sad to mention at times because it is unbelievably isolating. Isolating and then like the feel I have felt that I could not bring that feeling of isolation or fear of extra not belonging oh I'd rather hide parts of myself to fit in, wear the outfit to fit in, say the thing to fit in, and sit with this feeling of isolation than reveal the fact that I'm feeling isolated and alone. Because that is scary. Yeah. So it's like layers of fear happening with this concept of fitting in, what it is that we sacrifice and leave behind to fit in.
Eric Bomyea:It's like so many fear layers.
Timothy Bish:Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think there has been one gay man in my entire life that I feel like not only wanted my whole authentic self and expression, celebrated it, one person in my entire life. And so, you know, obviously, this was like a very dear friend of mine, but you think, okay. And then and then then then I hear these things be like, know, Brene Brown and Oprah.
Timothy Bish:Like, if you just have one really good friend, like, that's, you know, that's that's good. And so but there are moments when in a whole world of people, there's only one person where I feel like this. I can be you know? There are moments when that feels lonely, especially when you can't always be with that person. They can't always they can't always give you that boost.
Timothy Bish:Right? So then I guess we have to start cultivating it in ourselves. But that's easier said
Eric Bomyea:than done. It's really challenging too if it's just one person. And you see on Instagram people consistently are like, oh my gosh, the squad is running deep today. And it's like, there's like six of them running together all the time. It's like, yeah, that's my cynicism too.
Eric Bomyea:I'm like, much of this is reality. Are you all actually friends? And all that stuff that goes through my head that then continues to talk about
Timothy Bish:this They might all be trying to fit in.
Eric Bomyea:Right. This also goes back to our conversation with a mere judgment is less about keeping me from you. So it really is my opportunity to be like, what? Okay. Like, cynical Eric, angsty teenage Eric, like, what's going on here?
Eric Bomyea:Yeah. What's what jealousy is underneath the surface right now? What are we trying to strive for?
Timothy Bish:I mean, we all want to feel loved. We all want to feel connected. We all want to feel safe, and we all want to feel included. And we all want to feel like we belong, and we want that so badly. I want us I want that so badly that sometimes I'm willing to fit in as a as a a way of getting that feeling.
Timothy Bish:So when we think about this and, like, why is men's work important? Why is yogic shamanic embodiment practices important? It's to help us continue to connect with our own authentic experience in any given moment so we have a clearer understanding of it and so that we can at least at least the process would begin by noticing when whatever I'm doing feels incongruent to my full self. And and a lot of
Eric Bomyea:the times, I get those signals from my body. It helps us move away from, like, how do I need to be right now to fit into like, what's true for me right now? Tapping into the authenticity, like what is my truth right now? What is it I'm feeling? And was it that I want to do?
Eric Bomyea:Is it that I'm desiring? Just really connecting with that and owning that. But that takes time and space. So curious about how do we intentionally create spaces that invite belonging rather than this demanding of conformity?
Timothy Bish:Well, I I mean, great question. When we figure out the answer, you know, I guess we'll we'll start to do it. I I think we need to start spaces where we're having different kinds of dialogue because how are you actually doing isn't a question I feel like I hear or receive very frequently. So a lot of like, what's up? How are you?
Timothy Bish:Like, yeah. I get it. But am I genuinely interested in your internal experience, your felt sense? You you know, I don't hear that very much. And so creating spaces, well, how are you doing?
Timothy Bish:Are are you are you feeling relaxed and at ease? Do you feel safe right now? Do you feel accepted? Do you feel seen? Do you feel heard?
Timothy Bish:These are not questions that I'm hearing frequently. Out in public. Yeah. And and then especially in, like, gay male spaces, we're not that isn't the conversation. Conversation is something else.
Timothy Bish:And so creating spaces where that is part of the conversation, I think, is really powerful. And, you know, that's why we I created the embodiment circle here and why you and I are creating the space and what we're doing. So there is a place. Because because here's the thing. When you want to share something that isn't pretty, that isn't fun, or that isn't gonna get lots of likes on Instagram, but you need to share it because it's in service to your to your mental health or your highest good, you need a place where you're allowed to be a little messy, a little ugly, or where you don't feel the pressure to have to be super entertaining or charismatic all the time.
Timothy Bish:So do you have a place where you can legitimately have a bad day and feel safe in saying, I I don't feel great today. Or I don't I don't feel seen or heard right now. I feel I feel really othered. I feel like
Eric Bomyea:I don't belong. In order to actually do that, you would need safe container and probably trusted people that you know could hold that. Like, I will love you anyway even when you're not beautiful in particular ways that our culture wants us. Holding it is so important. I was with a dear friend yesterday, and I was going through it.
Eric Bomyea:I was having a hard time. It's Bear Week in town, y'all, and there's just something in the energy that has shifted for me so much of like, I do not feel like I belong. I feel so othered, so alienated, I don't know what it is. Still working on it. Again, when we find the answers, we will tell everyone.
Eric Bomyea:But I am going through it. I had a very dear friend who, we've been able to have conversations in the past about our feelings and our emotions, and we're walking down the street and he asked, what are you doing? And I let it out. He got really uncomfortable. And he tried changing the subject several times, and I love him dearly.
Eric Bomyea:But in that moment, he could not hold it. He's been able to hold it in other ways, and in other times, in other spaces. But yesterday, he was not able to. And I was able to get out what I needed to get out to be able to then be as present with him as possible without stewing in my stuff. So it was in service enough, but I was still, had some things still going on.
Timothy Bish:Well, mean, I think one of the things I'm hearing in that story, that example, is this idea of the healing power of being seen and heard. Because I think another thing that happens is this desire to wanna fix. Right? So, oh, you are you're saying you're uncomfortable. You're unhappy, whatever the thing is.
Timothy Bish:And now I wanna try to, like, offer you some solutions. And in reality, you are you live in Provincetown right now during Bear Wee. The solution is to look at yourself and how you engage because you're not you're not stopping Bear Week until it's over.
Eric Bomyea:That's right. Right?
Timothy Bish:And so sometimes wanna stop it either.
Eric Bomyea:No. Of course.
Timothy Bish:But, like, the idea being then that, well, the I'm not looking for solutions. I'm not looking for distractions. I'm looking for someone to see me in this feeling right now.
Eric Bomyea:Because I feel so lonely and alone this week that feels like such a community event of belonging, and I feel so alone in it. That's been part of the beautiful thing about the Bear community, the first bars that I went to were Bear bars, where I felt that for a time that sense of belonging. Now I just feel like something has shifted in me that I feel incredibly lonely in.
Timothy Bish:Well, we to recognize that for as much as we love Provincetown and what it offers and the open safe space that it creates, especially in this moment in time for gay people and queer people to come together and, you know, do the things, It is a resort town. And so people come people come with vacation resort agenda. This is really true. I believe it to be true. And so the comments we're making right now about Bear Week aren't necessarily, like, directly specific to the Bear community, but rather any group of people that are coming to be like, I I am on vacation agenda, and I wanna check all the boxes.
Timothy Bish:And I think that's really different because I have I have felt like the bear community, but also the leather so many communities. The leather community, the bear community, very accepting, very open. But but it's different when you're like, but it's heightened. We're on a we're on a seven day sprint of fun. Right?
Timothy Bish:We are we are sprinting through this experience to do all the things. So the bear cruise, the beach, the parties, the pool party
Eric Bomyea:The shows.
Timothy Bish:The shows, like, you know, whatever. And nothing wrong with it, but there is an intensity to it, especially if you're not on vacation. So, like, if you know, in the P there's this P town joke about, I'm not on your vacation. You're on your vacation, but I'm not on your vaca I'm here with you, but I'm at work. Right?
Timothy Bish:And so just wanting to honor you that I think one of the challenges is you're a P townie who's working while other people, and especially when these theme weeks, are having very intense vacations, which they are totally welcome to have. But the problem with P town is you can't you can't entirely not observe it happening around you because it's small and you see it. I mean And it's hard not to compare. So hard not to compare.
Eric Bomyea:See this is the thing, if town floods to a 100,000 people, 75,000 people are engaging in a certain way, I'm not one of those 75,000. I feel, I'm like what am I doing wrong? I don't have like the the nervous system built up to be able to say like, oh, they can do whatever they want, and I can do whatever I want. I just am not there yet. I look at I look at that, and I'm like, what am I doing wrong?
Eric Bomyea:Right. What is wrong with me?
Timothy Bish:Well, so I was on the bear cruise yesterday, as you know. And and this idea, you know, looking around, and I ultimately had a fairly good time, I would say. There were at least two or three moments, though, where I was like, I'm feeling a little overwhelmed. And I wish I could get off this boat. You know, those moments passed, but I was, like, looking around and thinking everyone here looks like they're having so much fun.
Timothy Bish:And there are these moments where I was not having fun. I still largely had fun. But and those are moments where it feels really hard to be what's wrong with me? Why don't why am I why don't I belong here? It looks like everyone else is super comfortable and they belong, and I don't feel that way.
Timothy Bish:It's really tricky.
Eric Bomyea:What if it isn't something that we find? What's something that we like build?
Timothy Bish:Well, okay. So, yes. A, yes. Let's build it. And, you know, from my own personal experience, the the short time I've lived in Provincetown, I'm working on three and a half years of living here.
Timothy Bish:I feel like I have worked hard to build spaces that that I find nourishing, that I think are add value. But there can that can be fatiguing. And there can be moments when you I just want to I just want to step into someone else's container or have a place that I can go that I don't have to also create. So, yes, we should all work hard to create these spaces, and sometimes it's nice to oh, I which is why when you started leading the circle, both the embodiment circle and the sharing circle, one of the reasons I was so happy about that in addition to the fact that you were a member of the team and, you know, we were building a thing was that I could step in and for once be the participant in the space that I was otherwise always leading. So so nice.
Timothy Bish:So, yes, we have to create those spaces, but sometimes it's nice to have a space already so that we can fill our tank.
Eric Bomyea:What about building our internal spaces? I mean, we talked about this with sacred drala, the episode on sacred drala where drala is a concept that can be applied both externally and internally. So what about building the space within ourselves to feel like we belong, just conform us with ourselves, then be able to build more spaces externally? Sure.
Timothy Bish:Well, I mean, I'm gonna, right back to you. I mean, I still I still struggle with feeling, like, othered and like I don't belong. So, yes, I would love to do that. I think that these practices help me do that, and these spaces help me do that. When I'm teaching yoga, for example, in those moments, I have found that the world feels like it falls away, and I get I get really focused and connected to what is happening in that moment.
Timothy Bish:And there's a real loveliness in, like, oh, there's like, I can be me here fully, and that feels really, really good. And so, yeah, the idea of glimpsing those moments and then starting to try to figure out how to bring them more frequently, I think, is really, really helpful. I mean, I can't be teaching yoga all day long to avoid feeling othered or isolated, but but recognizing if I if I
Eric Bomyea:can tap into it there, then maybe I can start tapping into it at other places. Recognizing for me it's like the safety that I feel. So how can I remind myself that I am safe, first and foremost? Because a lot of the times that's the anxiety and the nerves that get built up, is that like, I don't feel like I belong myself, right? So I'm like inside myself saying like, I don't belong.
Eric Bomyea:This is me. And I'm not accepting certain parts of me. Because I'm afraid that they won't be accepted. So a lot of my work has been, how do I accept these parts of me? How do I accept the stern, stoic, hard parts of myself, and the playful, expressive parts of myself as well?
Eric Bomyea:To then rest in my own safety, my own built space of safety inside of myself where all parts of me are welcome, to then be able to bring that out into the world regardless if I fit in. Well, do you do that? I do that with a lot of affirmations at this point, and sometimes they work and sometimes they don't. But it really is the constant reminder of like, your system is telling me I am not safe. There's a siren going off somewhere, and it's the coming back of like, I am safe, I am safe, I am safe.
Eric Bomyea:Recognizing when I'm truly not safe, which is very infrequently. Truly, in my life, there are very few moments that I am not safe. Sometimes biking down commercial Street is very unsafe. Physically. But like there are very few moments that I'm very fortunate to be able to say that currently in my life, there
Timothy Bish:are very few moments that I'm actually not safe. Well, it's it's interesting now I'm picking up, for me at least, my ability to belong feels like it is deeply connected to my level of control or competency. So one of the reasons I think yoga is a place where I can I feel very confident there, and I am in control there? And I think the moments when I don't feel like I belong, like the few moments on the bear cruise and, you know, countless moments in in this gay community, are are those where I feel like I have very little control. And so for me, this is just me.
Timothy Bish:Without without a sense of control, then I start to question my safety. And without a sense of safety, it's hard to then make bold choices about how it is you wanna be. I'm working through this now in real time, but maybe understanding ways that I can feel more in control of my own self in moments like this, in moments where in moments where I'm not the one leading the class or you know? So I don't have an I don't have an answer except that I'm gonna I'm gonna start thinking about that. Okay.
Timothy Bish:How can I how can I inject a little bit more of control for myself in this moment so that I don't feel like I'm at the mercy of a moving crowd?
Eric Bomyea:It's like, what bold choice can I make right now to belong with myself, my purpose, my higher power, all that good stuff, so that I am less inclined? I have less of an impulse, less of a desire to fit in.
Timothy Bish:You know, we've talked about this on two occasions. I oh, I don't we've talked about this, but on two occasions, my teacher, Amir Kalighi, has asked me to do sort of an improvisational interpretive dance as part of a ceremony. And I realized the first time I did that, I got a little nervous when he first asked me, I'm like, yeah. I'm down for that. And then I did it.
Timothy Bish:And I remember thinking, oh, well, years ago, I would have been so nervous about this, especially basically doing this interpretive dance, you know, in front of a bunch of straight guys. You know, what are they gonna think? And and I remember thinking, oh, I wasn't that nervous about it. I I still wanted it to go well, obviously, but I wasn't that nervous. And now I realize, I'm like, yeah, but I'm also in charge.
Timothy Bish:All of these men know me as, like, the guy who's calling the shots. And so it never really occurred to me until right now to be like, oh, I was able to do something that was really authentically me, but also everyone here knew that I'm I'm like, there was a level of control that wasn't specific to that moment. Right? Like, they were all seated and I was doing this thing. Right?
Timothy Bish:But there was control in the in the arc of the whole retreat. And it never occurred to me until right now. Oh, maybe that's why I was able to relax a little bit because I had that level of control. Now I have to start to think about, okay so the next episode is gonna be about control. Control.
Eric Bomyea:Stay tuned next week when Tim learns how to.
Timothy Bish:Either like consciously direct my control or relinquish the need for it at times, which I think probably both. But control as connected to safety. If I feel safe in your love for me, if I feel safe in your commitment to keep me in your life even in the moments where I'm not my best, I can probably show up more fully, more authentically. If I am uncertain that you actually love me, then I'm probably gonna have a harder time not thinking about what it is I need to do to make you love me. And, like, we could go into, like, all kinds of childhood trauma about, you know, what parents have said or not said that needed to be said, shown up or not shown up, you know, all that sort of stuff.
Timothy Bish:But bottom line is it's really hard for some people, myself included, to feel like I can trust that. And so, obviously, moments you have, you do trust that, feel so good that you're then, like, incentivized to try to find them again and again and again, which is why people trying to fit in is not at all surprising. It feels terrible when I don't feel like I belong, and it feels unbelievable when I do. So I'm probably gonna be willing to go to great lengths to get that feeling. When you don't fit in, you're left behind.
Eric Bomyea:And what used to happen if you got left behind? You eaten by wolves. You want to fit in so badly. Yeah. It would be great if we belonged.
Eric Bomyea:It would be great if we fully could be ourselves in it. And I really do hope, I sincerely hope that we can all continue to do the work that we're all doing.
Timothy Bish:Well, think we need to be mindful. If now we're talking about the gay male experience or the queer experience, we have to be mindful when we are regularly putting ourselves in environments where everybody is adhering to group think. Because because then we're gonna have this giant current of of engagement and thought. And it's gonna be contrary to actual belonging. Like, oh, now when I think about, like, these parties, for example, like the one we just referred to, they're like, okay.
Timothy Bish:Well, there are 600 of us here. And 90 something percent of us have all agreed on this sort of manner of engagement. So then if you're there and really be yourself and belong, that can be really tricky. It's a it's a it's tough current to fight. And so one of the reasons why I think these conscious spaces and why in yoga they talk about satsang and the importance of conscious community with people with like minded manners of engagement are so important, it's because the current is working with you and you are being lovingly reminded and kind of constantly folded back in.
Timothy Bish:You know, my teacher Amir uses this phrase of, like, bringing them back into the center of the boat. Like, bring them back into the boat. Sort of constantly drawing people back in. Hey, brother. Hey, brother.
Timothy Bish:How are you? And so so that environment is so important, and we have to create those environments. I've created some of them. You've created some of them. But it sounds like it feels like we need a lot more.
Eric Bomyea:So again, like for me, the environment has to start with me. I have to do that environmental work on myself. I need to check-in with myself. Hey brother, how are you doing? You belong here, you are safe.
Timothy Bish:So I'm hearing a personal check-in, hearing affirmations.
Eric Bomyea:Like because if I don't feel like I believe, if me myself, I don't belong with myself, how the hell am I gonna belong somewhere else? Okay. But like seriously though, because a lot of this is like I do not love all the parts of myself. I do not fully love all the parts of myself. Sure.
Eric Bomyea:And I've hid parts of them. Yeah. You know. And so now, I think my work is to help all those parts feel like they belong, so that I can go into any room anywhere, still feel like I belong, because I belong with myself.
Timothy Bish:Yeah. I hear that, and I agree with you. Operational. I just mean I I just exactly. I just wanna point out that that is a long process, and you're referencing parts work.
Timothy Bish:Right? So I can let the I can honor the angry part. I can honor the effulgent part. I can honor the goofy part. I can honor the sexy part.
Timothy Bish:I can you know? But that isn't I wanna make sure that we're being really clear that, you know, feeling safe with myself isn't a thing I can just decide. Totally. Yeah. And so that is also a process and thinking, okay.
Timothy Bish:Well, there might be a moment when even through that practice, it doesn't feel like it's going very well. And I wanna normalize that. You know you know, my yoga practice, but even my practice of, you know, ballet or modern dance, sometimes you walk in and you have a killer class and you feel I remember sometimes I would leave dance class driving back from Downtown Pittsburgh with my friend Andrea and be like, oh my god. Like, that class was amazing. And other times, you're like, that didn't that didn't go well, and I'm never gonna make it.
Timothy Bish:Like, this you know? And those classes where you feel not great are equally important as we're putting in the reps. We're coming we're coming back over and over and over. I come back. I come back.
Timothy Bish:I come back. I come back. So if you're in the process now of trying to create a safe space for yourself and start loving parts of yourself, recognize that some days that's gonna feel really good and other days you're likely gonna feel like you're not doing it as well. And that's not gonna feel good, and you may have to then it'll impact maybe some of the choices you make. If you're in that space and you go into that other environment.
Timothy Bish:Maybe today's not
Eric Bomyea:the day. Rewind to me yesterday. Like, I'm not saying that it is a switch. Yeah. I am actively going through it every single day.
Eric Bomyea:Well, and thank
Timothy Bish:you for modeling it because I think that's the thing. And then this is why the community is so important so that you you can have a person where you say, hey, I'm practicing this self love thing, and today is not going great. Because, you know, it's funny when when it is going great, you often, I'll speak for myself, I often don't need a lot of support when I'm like, I'm kinda killing it right now. Like, I'm feeling really good and, like, very, you know, like it's the moments when I'm not, when I need it. The moments when I feel ugly and messy and, you know, like a lot you know, am I gonna be too much for I mean, I can't tell you how many times in the last two and a half years where I have wanted to call a friend and then been like, I can't call them and cry again.
Timothy Bish:I just that's all I do. Right? Because you're like, I'm a burden. I'm too much. This is you know?
Timothy Bish:So having people that will watch it over and over is a big part
Eric Bomyea:of it. I I can like turn on my sassy dial. Can turn that way up. And like I can try to tell myself because I've been in those positions of like, oh, I don't want be too much. My sassy dial turns up, and then I'm like, well, if you think I'm too much, go find less.
Eric Bomyea:And that's my way of saying, I'm going to accept me as this quote unquote too much person. You can't accept that that's on you, girl. And so saying that, I can say that jokingly. Do I feel it 100%? No.
Eric Bomyea:But I can relate to you when you say, oh, I don't want to be too much. In those moments, it is my hope, my prayer, my wish for myself, for you, for everyone. We don't have that dialogue. You can just be you, and if somebody can't handle your too muchness, they can go find less.
Timothy Bish:Yeah. But that okay. Yes. Sassy dial is up. I hear you.
Timothy Bish:I love it. I hear you. But, you know, we have to recognize that if if that's the idea, if I'm too much for you, you go find less. And if that person would be like, okay. Then the person who felt like potentially too much but was gonna adhere to their authentic expression is standing alone in that moment.
Timothy Bish:Right? So it's like there is still sometimes a cost to things that have to be considered. I remember telling a story in sharing circle last week about having to have a conversation I didn't wanna have. And, you know, one of the reflections was, can I ask a clarifying question? I said, yes.
Timothy Bish:And, like, well, why didn't you why didn't you say that you didn't wanna talk about that? And I said, oh, because there's a cost. There's a social cost to that in this moment. And I recognized that it exists, and I had to decide if I was willing to pay that or not. And so, yeah, I I mean, I love the idea of, like, if I'm too much, go find less as, like, a broad, but then honoring Well, at times then that means you're standing you're standing alone while someone walks away from you because they can't hold you.
Timothy Bish:And that's still their problem, but then that's gonna be your experience.
Eric Bomyea:And their hope then is that you belong so much with yourself. Yes, it does hurt. But you you don't have a desire to fit in. And I think like that's the aspiration. Yeah.
Eric Bomyea:Again, very aspirational. Not a light switch. This is not like this is gonna happen tomorrow. Yeah. But like, aspirationally, like, be yourself.
Eric Bomyea:I wanna be able to be myself so much, and then if that person does leave, I'm okay with myself.
Timothy Bish:Well, I think that I think that we are getting to this is clearly gonna be the first of many because I want that. I want to feel so comfortable and safe and like I belong with myself that these things don't have a huge impact on me, and I am currently not there. Currently, it's tough for me when people I care about can't meet me, and I feel the emotional aftermath of that. And I feel it in, like, a pretty intense way. I feel it emotionally and mentally and intellectually and physically, like, all kinds of things.
Timothy Bish:So let's keep talking about it because I think you're absolutely right. The idea if I felt so certain that I belonged with myself, then maybe it would all change. And, you know, I recognize I grew up Irish Catholic and my grandmother in particular, like, it was just everything was about what other people thought. So I have lots of rewiring to do. Yeah.
Timothy Bish:It's layers. So this
Eric Bomyea:is it's layers of fear Yeah. That makes this very challenging. But worth doing. Totally worth doing. Like like, I don't want it to just be my sassy self that says that.
Eric Bomyea:I just want that to be me.
Timothy Bish:I mean, you finally did something sassy. You've been talking about your sassy dial for what, the last five minutes, and then I was like, when are you gonna give me like a like a thing? And so I just got the I just got the arm. So feeling pretty happy about that because I've been waiting for some some, you know, demonstration of sass. You gave it.
Timothy Bish:Thank you. I think that's a great way to wrap up this episode with some sass.
Eric Bomyea:I feel like all parts of me are feeling very belonging right now.
Timothy Bish:Your sassy part is I think also
Eric Bomyea:that, yeah, you said this is probably the first of a couple of around this topic. It's a really important And I'm working through every day. You're working through
Timothy Bish:it every day. I feel complete. So let's close our eyes. Take a deep inhale through the nose. Soft exhale through the mouth.
Timothy Bish:And it is with deep appreciation and gratitude for any insights, awarenesses, or understandings that were gained here in this shared sacred space of brotherhood that we now release the archetypes and the spirits that we called in. And as we leave here, I wish everyone safety, community, and love. With these words, our containers open but not broken.