Purpose, Intention, Integrity, and Devotion in Men’s Work

Welcome to The Circle. A queer men's conversation about men's work, men's embodiment practice, men's spirituality, and men's personal growth with an emphasis on how queer men can participate, benefit, serve, and lead in these spaces. My name is Timothy Bish.

My name is Eric Baumier. Welcome to episode 3 of the circle, the podcast for queer men's embodiment. Today, we're exploring some of the most essential aspect of a man's journey. Purpose, intention, and integrity. We go all in on what it means to live with intention, align with your purpose, and show up with integrity, not just for yourself, but for those you love.

Tim, are you ready to get started?

Absolutely.

Let's dive in.

Mhmm.

So purpose is something many men wrestle with, especially trying to live authentically and to find meaning. For me, it's been an ongoing process of figuring out how I align my actions, with a deeper calling, and even that alone, trying to figure out what that calling is has been some some hard work and is an ongoing process for me. So, Tim, this is not a small topic and it's something many men struggle with. Why do you think purpose is so important for us to talk about today?

I believe that purpose is a foundational component to a man's life. We have teachers who talk about how purpose needs to be the most important thing in a man's life and that, you know, David Deida talks about this idea that your purpose should be even more important than your primary relationship and that your partner wants that too and that it's in service to everything. So when we think about purpose, we start to think about what we are doing with this life that we have. Now we can talk about reincarnation or whatever, but if we were to assume that we only have one life and how do you want to experience your life? How do you want to engage in your life and with the people with whom you share your life? These are very important things to consider because if we only have 1, then this is the time. And so for men to wrap their head around what their purpose is, what their mission is in service to that purpose and what their intentions are. It creates a framework in how you try to live.

So purpose, though, still sounds a little vague and abstract to me. Mhmm. And before stepping into this recording, I did a quick Amazon search. And

An Amazon search.

For books with the title of purpose on them.

Got it.

And the results was an infinite scroll. Mhmm. At one point, I think I saw 200,000 results. So this is a topic that has been written about by many, and I think it's because it is such a big, vague, abstract term. So how do we even define purpose?

Well, based on what you just said, I think it's important to recognize that I think I have my understanding. I think you have yours. I think that all of my teachers have theirs. And so what we're about to discuss isn't necessarily the agreed upon, definition or or that there might even be numerous definitions that we agree upon. But in this moment, the thing that I've come into contact with most most recently that has resonated is this idea that purpose is a lived experience. I think as, an American person, I thought that purpose was a fancy way of goal setting. But recently I've come into this idea that purpose is the the the experience of purpose is the experience of deep love, of fulfillment, of satisfaction, of connection, and that that that experience is had congruent with your core values. And so when we think about purpose, we think about purpose is this lived experience and then I take that, and then I try to aim my life in pursuit of that lived experience.

So maybe a a framework for fulfillment is is a a phrase that I heard you say that purpose gives us a framework or kind of a a blueprint to follow in pursuit of fulfillment. And and maybe it's in pursuit of meaning of a long term goal, something that has, purpose. Mhmm.

It gets tricky.

That but that goes beyond yourself. That starts to, you start to seek meaning outside of yourself. So this isn't about self fulfillment or personal growth necessarily. Those can be components of it, but it's about moving beyond the self and serving beyond self and connecting to to something bigger.

I think it can be. I think we're on the precipice of a slightly different conversation because I think I think that is often true, but I don't wanna confuse people. So Okay.

So let's break that down.

Yeah. So if you've we you've probably had this experience, I definitely have, of a day you get home and you're exhausted. You've done all the things, but there's something running through you that is alive and nourished and satisfied and content and all of these things. I believe that that experience when I've had it, it is an indication that I have been connected to my purpose. So for me, that is because purpose is not a goal that is in service to something greater than myself. I don't feel comfortable in this moment suggesting that that's always how it is for every person, but it has been that for me.

Mhmm. But can we agree that purpose is different than accomplishment or striving for what we see as traditional western success?

I think we need to. I think it's, imperative. So, you know, we can set goals and we can try to achieve goals and we can feel good when we do that. And the and the setting and achieving of goals, I think can be in service to our purpose. But we have to be careful to remember that if we believe purpose is a lived experience, then, there are things that we can do in, in service to that.

But purpose is going to be a thing that we are going to want to continually experience over and over and over again. And a goal typically has is finite. A goal is the thing I'd like to do, I'm gonna work towards it and then I do it. And then then maybe you set a new goal in the same way that we can create new missions and we can constantly set new intentions or refine our intentions. I think our purpose is this experience of being lit up, of being fully engaged and feeling connected and fulfilled and, and looking for that experience.

And aligning the tangible actions in our lives and the decisions that we make so that we can continue to have this lived experience, this fulfillment. So going, like, back to the the framework, it's the it's the blueprint or the, the understanding of what it is that does bring that fulfillment, and it's gonna be different for every person. Right? That's our purpose. That's our purpose in this life is that what brings us that specific feeling and knowing how to align the tangible actions of our lives to that.

So I'll share a story. I moved to New York City when I was 18 years old because I wanted to be a professional dancer and Broadway performer. And for a big chunk of my life, 18 to 31, that was my pursuit. And so my actions and my my goals and my mission, it all had to do with that. And then when I, when I would be in those moments of performance, I would have experience of I feel, I feel connected.

I feel like I'm being of service. I'm adding value. I'm satisfied. I'm all those things. Well, things in my life have changed and since then I've become a yoga instructor and then I've become an acupuncturist and a men's coach and now a small business owner.

And so the intentions that I set, the goals that I set, the mission that I have may have changed, but what I still ultimately want are those moments of that connection where, oh, I, because I believe for me, my purpose is connected to health and wellness and helping people live more happily by living more healthfully. I'm still wanting that lived experience. That lived experience hasn't changed for me. The way that I'm looking for it has. And I think people need to be able to honor that. So that there are the pursuit of your purpose may not just be one path. It may not be just one line. You might be like, I'm here and now I'm here, and now I'm here, and now I'm here. But that lived experience is the thing we're still looking for.

Yeah. The the lifelong pursuit of that and in the different ways in which you start to find the things that that do light you up that are sounding, at least from the examples you gave that sound like in service to others. There is a component of self there of, like, in order to be of the best service to others, you do have to accomplish some things on for yourself, and there is self growth and accomplishments and goals that you must attain in pursuit of this this devotion to something outside of you.

Yeah. And you're using the word devotion. I like that. I think that I think we need to bring in this idea of devotion or of care because I think many of us can also relate to the idea of having been engaged in a task, you know, for a few hours or for a day or for a weekend. And, we did a great job, but we didn't really care about it. And how different that feels from the moments when we are fully engaged in something that matters deeply. And and then the the the pursuit of that, the practice of that, like, the the tug and pull of that, you know, like the the good days and the bad days and, you know, but this thing that keeps you going

Through those bad days.

Through those bad days, because there's this thing. Right? And that was certainly true for me as a dancer. There were definitely days where I'm, like, I'm tired or the class didn't go well, and I'm, like, I'll never make it. But something brought me back the next day.

I'm gonna but I'm gonna try again. Where with other things, if I didn't care about it, you'd be like, well, I don't I'm not good at that. I don't wanna do that. There was something. So I I think that's care or devotion, what you're sort of alluding to.

I think it's a really important component and this is why we talk for me purpose has a component of core values. So if I'm feeling deeply connected, fulfilled, connected, loved, valued, you know, all those things, But I have that feeling congruent in my core values. This will get us into integrity in a moment, but, it's rare it's rare to feel that feeling when you're not in alignment with your values.

Yeah. And I think that through this pursuit of purpose, it helps a man to start to identify his sense of self and really start to hone that relationship with self, out. So this is where, again, we go back, like, the purpose is different than, accomplishments and self gains and striving for that success. And it really like, if you devote your life to only fame and fortune, how much meaning are you gonna get from life? Not saying that in that pursuit of fame and fortune, you're not going to develop certain things and you're not going to you you might start to identify those little nuggets, those little pockets of where you feel the most fulfilled.

And I think that's where you start to find your sense of self and how what you do in life brings meaning to your life and brings you that energy to to keep going, to keep pursuing, to keep moving forward.

Well, I think that it's dangerous for most of us, and I'll speak for myself. If if I only ever have value when I accomplish the things I hope to accomplish, and I accomplish them as well as I wanted to accomplish them, then I am setting myself up for, at minimum, moments of failure and disappointment. I think the practice of purpose opens us to the possibility that maybe my inherent value isn't dependent upon whether or not I can create or achieve or accomplish this thing right now in this perfect way every time. Right? So I think what, you know, one thing that goes to mind jumps to mind to me is, this idea of, like, let's say a successful man with a family, but how he might feel playing with his child for 30 minutes.

There's not a lot of accomplishment, you know, like there's, there's no like check coming or promotion coming or you know, badge chances are it's going to happen like noticed maybe by a very few number of people, but you might still walk away feeling kind of incredible about that time And it's like, well then does it is it less valuable because it isn't like an accomplishment, a check on a list? And I think that's what we're striving for that, like, all that lived experience of like deep connection and value in that. And I've I've definitely fallen victim to that of

like like tying my own value to that of accomplishment of like like, the the perfect career, the, you know, the the perfect apartment, the perfect boyfriend, like, all these things, like, you know, just trying to strive for something that

I do that too. And I think that is a really big part of the queer experience. I think that a lot of queer people LGBTQIS to, LGBTQIA2S plus people, felt a sense of shame, the sense of I'm not good enough. And we became accomplishment, machines. We became proof that I'm valuable machines and we and we and, you know, for survival and for safety and for so many reasons.

So, you know, this is not a judgment and I do it too. I got really accustomed to like, well, if I want you to love me and care about me, then I probably need to be exceptional all the time. So then suddenly someone walks around and says, you're you're lovable just as you are. And I remember the first I'm like, are you fucking kidding me? Like, what do you what are you talking about?

I've only ever been loved by impressing hard to please people. So it can be that easy. It didn't even feel real to me. Right? So I think we have to be gentle with ourselves and cognizant of, okay, so that part of me that wants to create and wants to excel and wants to be excellent, that's great.

But can I balance it so that it doesn't become the measure of who I am and it doesn't allow the possibility for me to completely crumble anytime I can't meet that standard?

Right. Not allowing it to define us, but how do we channel that excellence into something else? Say that again. So in the pursuit of accomplishment, many of us, myself included, have learned a lot of skills, whether that is professionally, interpersonally. These skills can be applicable and can start to be leveraged for something else.

Right? So in the example that I'm about to give, like, I've got project management experience and the ability to like help organize events. And right now, as part of my training program through embodied masculine, I'm helping to run point for a retreat that we're planning. And being able to use these skills that I had honed for other pursuits, for pursuits for fortune. Right?

And accomplishment and promotion and attention. I'm now able to use in service of something bigger than me, And I get to align with something that I really believe in. And so now I get to use these these skills and these tools that I had been using for personal growth and personal gain now for something bigger that brings me fulfillment.

Right. So I was just I was just about to quiz you. So the the skill set stays the same. The context is different. How will you know, that that it whether or not it is connected to your

purpose? When I end a day and I'm tired and I've accomplished so much through the day Accomplished? Accomplished. I've checked a bunch of things off the to do list.

Mhmm.

Right? The the, tactical things that were in my life, were they in service to a purpose? Did they serve a purpose? And that is a very specific feeling of like going to bed not just like feeling accomplished, but like resting that like, yeah, like I am I am doing something more. Well, you

said the answer. Mhmm. You said the answer and then you and then you went back and you and you ran it through a different filter of accomplishment. Originally, you said, fulfillment. So I think this conversation is sort of highlighting, it doesn't matter how many things you checked off the list.

Right? That's the old way of thinking. Mhmm. To be like, I'm allowed to feel good if I've checked everything off my list or 95% of all my lists or, you know, whatever. And instead it's like, no, if if you can take that skill set and direct it towards a pursuit that when you're done, you feel a deep sense of fulfillment, satisfaction, connection, deep love, devotion that would then indicate purpose as I see it

and as I'm experiencing it. Right.

I just put it like and so like highlighting, I'd like I not to put you on the spot, but to highlight that because I do it too. It's still so easy to fall into this idea of like, well, well, purpose has to do with accomplishment. Purpose purpose is a fancy word for goal. It isn't. As I understand it, it is not.

And we're allowed to have goals and we're allowed to have mission, and we're allowed to have intention. But our purpose is this thing. It's it is it is a it's a lived experience and that we are that we are aiming to live. And this is why we have an intention. Like my intention is maybe to be present.

Why? Because presence allows me to have this lived experience. My my intention might be to show up fully. Why? Because when I show up fully, I have this lived experience of my purpose.

My intention might be and then fill in the blank. Why? Because ideally that whatever that intention you set for whatever the context is, it can be an intention for a class, it can be intention for the day, for a retreat, for a week, for a year. But whatever the intention is, it's in service of finding and attaining that lived experience. Because from that lived experience, I have found is the greatest, version of ourselves from which to share.

Absolutely. And I think

something that I'm noticing is that as I'm discovering where in my life I do feel the most fulfillment, It is a very organic process at this point. Some of it is not intentional. It's discovery. I'm just discovering and listening to what is, what makes me feel that fulfillment. And it's through that and building awareness around that and reflecting at the end of the day of, like, how fulfilled do I feel based off of what was on my to do list or what I did accomplish regardless of the number on there, the number of accomplishments.

If I can start to identify those, then I can be more intentional with my life.

Yes. I think it's important for us all to remember that this idea of purpose as a lived experience that we are that we are looking to attain and kind of and and engage from, is really new. And so it will take practice. It will require us to do the work. I feel like you were just speaking to trying some things, asking the question.

Well, do I do I feel fulfilled or do I feel that sense of I know that the people around me are going to or they're going to they're going to pat me on the back or applaud me for having done the thing they think I should do. Right? So so most of the people listening to this podcast, myself included, is are going to have to do a slow discovery process of what are the things that bring me to that place. And that can be a growing list, a discovery. And we have to be patient with ourselves when there are moments when, oh, I feel I feel a way.

I feel let's just like some version of I don't feel great because I didn't accomplish a thing. And then allow ourselves that feeling and then investigate it and be like, well, am I am I feeling away because I wasn't acting in congruence with my intention, mission, in pursuit of my purpose? Or am I feeling this way because there's a cultural expectation on me that I haven't upheld? And so I am now vulnerable to external disappointment that I'm gonna have to metabolize and hold.

Where are you at a misalignment? Something's something's not aligned and discovering where that misalignment is happening can help us with setting of the intention of like whether or not I'm going to pursue something or not. And again, connecting it to the core values, you know, like, what is it that I truly believe in? What am I most passionate about? What are some of the things that are, like, my non negotiables in life?

Yeah. I wanna I wanna I wanna pause with that, like, I want I wanna ask you for more clarity about what you mean by misalignment. And the reason is because I do wanna honor that we live in a world where most people are still gonna think about accomplishment as a very admirable thing. So a person who's looking to understand their purpose and try to live their purpose, still has to contend with, well, my boss, my wife, my husband, my kids, my whomever that important person is might still meet you with this other, you know, paradigm of understanding and you have to, you're gonna have to manage that. Like our pursuit of our purpose as we understand it isn't going to stop people from projecting onto us their expectations of who and how we should be.

So I wanted to be really mindful about that because because it it will be part of the practice.

Yeah. And when I said misalignment, it was more about that internal feeling that you were referencing of, like, when something feels off. Right? When you are, if you don't accomplishment, what does that, what does it, what does that feeling create inside of you? Or if you're not in alignment to, right?

Like, that's what I meant by misalignment. That's, it's that feeling that, like, oh, something's off. Right? I did something that didn't bring me that that sense of fulfillment. So there's a little misalignment of my action, my behavior to that purpose, that that thing that's bringing me that fulfillment.

Is that

a little bit more clear? A little bit, but I I think that I would if I'm understanding you, I think I would shift it just a little bit to say that we need to be asking ourselves if we are in alignment. And that's why I brought that other point up. And like, if we are in alignment, which is how purpose and mission can be so, so intertwined with our practice of integrity. But, you know, the example that I just gave, what if a person has done a bunch of stuff but they're in that place of uncertainty, the questioning of, well, why am I uncertain?

Am I uncertain because I was misaligned with my purpose and my mission and I am out of integrity? Or am I questioning because I live in a world where the expectation has been set and I'm not going to meet these expectations, but I might still be in pers like congruent with my integrity and with my, intention and mission in pursuit of my purpose, and the world may not recognize that.

So could we say that integrity is the alignment to our our values and our purpose?

I believe that integrity should be the measure, meaning, like, once we get clear about what purpose feels like for us and what our mission and integrity is at any point in our life, what our mission and intention is in any point of our life, then we can start to ask ourselves, is my manner of being, is my manner of engagement, how I am showing up and the things that I am doing or choosing not to do congruent with that? And that I think is the measure of our integrity. So if I say I wanna be very healthy, and that's important, and then I'm doing a bunch of stuff that isn't in alignment with that, then I'm out of integrity.

Got it. So I'm gonna I'm gonna take a stab at putting together a framework here.

Okay. Yes. So here you heard it on the circle first, everyone.

Purpose. We know that we are living a life purposefully, full of purpose. If we can experience that beautiful, joyous, luscious feeling of fulfillment, that regardless of what, you know, we accomplish through the day, we have that sense of fulfillment.

And connection. And connection.

And then, we bring attention and awareness to those things that we were accomplishing or things that did lead to that, sense of fulfillment and connection. And we start to set intention. We start to become more intentional with the things that we are doing, the actions and the tactics of our lives, the the projects we are working on, the people that we surround ourselves with, we start to become more intentional with that based off of the understanding of what's bringing us fulfillment. Then with that sense, we can start to incorporate integrity of saying, I know the actions and behaviors and things that I am choosing to work on that bring me the most fulfillment and connection in my life. And when I'm not pursuing those things, then I have to start bringing into consideration my integrity and how and how much I'm showing up with integrity in those things that do bring me fulfillment and lead me towards my purpose.

Yes. Thank you. I would like to add a personal story here if you're open to it. Mhmm. I became an acupuncturist, and I worked in acupuncture for 7 years in New York City prior to the pandemic.

And I got into that pursuit because the medicine had been so impactful in my own life when I was a professional dancer and athlete. I had a profound experience even after surgeries, what it could do for me. And I wanted to contribute to the healing and the cessation of suffering even a little bit for as many people as possible. That would be what let me up. And then I was working in this office, with a lot of incredible people, but with a lot of like type a New Yorkers, you know.

And I had a wide array of patients and many of them would be like, I don't want to change like what I do or how I do it. I don't want to do that stretch. I don't wanna do that exercise. I don't want to eat differently and I don't want to take those herbs. I want you to make me feel better.

So put a needle where I point to and that's what I want and I'll see you every week. And I had a feeling often at the end of those sessions like how that felt. There were other people and one patient in particular, this amazing woman who was going through breast cancer treatment, and she was my first solo breast cancer patient. I had treated other breast cancer patients previously, but this was the first time I'm like, she was my patient. She started with me.

Solo meaning no other acupuncturist was working.

Like, I like I I didn't take her from my boss or from other you know, in in a public clinic. She came to the practice. She found me, and I was I was working with her. And, you know, I don't want to get into the weeds about like, chemo and radiation and like all that kind of stuff. That's a different topic for a different podcast.

But I remember one time she said to me when she was at the height of her treatment, she looked up at me and we had like a great rapport. I actually really like this person a lot. And she said, she's like, you know, now that we're at like this concentration of my of my treatment, this acupuncture is only giving me about 90 minutes of relief from, like, peripheral neuropathy, the sort of pain in her feet and her legs. Whereas, like, previously before the intensity of the treatment really accumulated, she would get more than that. But she looked at me and she was like, but those 90 minutes are worth everything.

And she left and I remember thinking I'm contributing to her to her feeling free and easier, for 90 minutes. And like I was floating.

Lit up.

Lit up. It didn't matter. Like like I wasn't I wasn't thinking about how much money I made for that hour. I wasn't thinking about, like, the insurance billing or, like, none of it. I was like, this is what I fucking came to do.

Like, it's some of those

other clients that were like, you you put a needle here and you're probably in the back of your mind be like paycheck, paycheck, paycheck.

Well, I mean, just just I remember thinking I wasn't really thinking paycheck. I was thinking, like, this isn't this isn't what I was wanting. And the moments and the moments you've

been through that.

Well, I mean, obligation, like the wanting to, you know, a whole bunch of stuff. But it the these other moments, that feels to me like like a moment of purpose to be like, oh, what I wanted was to genuinely help people. That's what I really wanted. And so the knowledge that I did, and I could see it in her too, like, oh, you you you are going to benefit from this and I have somehow contributed to that. But it's just it's priceless.

It's like there's no check.

It's a beautiful feeling. Yeah. It's a beautiful feeling when you can look at something that you've done and and or be a part of something that is bringing you that sense of fulfillment that you're like, wow. Like, I feel amazing right now.

Because I think this is what I'm supposed to be doing. And the doing isn't just I'm supposed to be helping any particular patient or or doing any particular modality. For me, it was like I am here to help people live more happily by living more healthfully. That is my sort of my impossible goal, my mantra, you know. And so when I do things that are congruent with that, it feels fucking amazing.

And amazing in a way that's like it isn't, it isn't amazing like I just took a drug, Right? It's like it's a different kind of so it's it's not a chasing of pleasure. I wanna be really clear. When we talk about purpose, we're not talking about chasing pleasure. Oftentimes, I think in my experience, pursuit of purpose has been fatiguing Mhmm.

Like, uncomfortable, you know, like, but there's still but fulfilled, connected. So many of these things, you know, that It's what can get you up in the morning. Yeah. Right? It's what

can get you out of bed Yes. And and going even if you are fatigued. Right? If you can tap into it and be like, I'm gonna see that patient today.

Now every person listening, I would love for each of you to think about the moment or moments in your life where you've had that experience. Now the it is possible that there's someone out there that's never had that experience. And to that, I say I hope I hope you can soon. Most people with whom I've met and talked and my friends, my family, my clients, most people have had at least a few of those experiences. Go back.

Think about them. I I know you probably remember them. What was it about them? Like how think about how you felt. Think about what you were doing.

Think about start to think about the constellation of factors that brought you to that place. And then I would argue, start to try to bring that now into your life right now.

Set the intention.

Yeah. And make it a practice. Start to practice either looking for, understanding or settling into what what purpose is for you and the mission and intentions you need to pursue that. And then enjoy your life. And also hold yourself accountable with a little integrity as well.

Totally. So integrity to me then becomes a measure of, oh, I let's go back to the the an easy example of, like, I wanna be really healthy. I want, like, a I want a fitter, more muscular, or sexier body, you know. And and then 2 weeks in you're like, well, I have the choice to like uphold my commitment to myself and go to the gym or my friends are all going to go have pizza and beer. By the way, this is not an anti pizza and beer podcast.

I think there's a place for that. But you but the question becomes for the conscious man, am I in integrity with what it is I said I wanted? And how like how I want to how I want to be and who I want to be and how I want to show up. And so I

would I would I would push a little bit on that. Go ahead. If if I'm in pursuit of something only for myself, then I can as long as I I would say, like, is in that pursuit of like health and fitness, is it serving something more?

Absolutely. Right. And this is that's fair. This is it absolutely is. And I want everyone to hear this when I was in my yoga teacher training with my teacher Narayanie.

Her name is Nicole Nichols. She's an unbelievable yoga teacher with Jivamutti Yoga. I came I was her mentor. I was working in one of her classes. I had an assignment.

It did not go well. She said what happened later. I said, listen, I, I was late and I ran here. I wasn't able to eat. I thought I was gonna do my assignment earlier and now it happened later, you know?

And she was like, I'd rather you not come than for you to come with an empty tank. She's like, if you've got no prana, you've got nothing to give. So this I want to push back really intensely because I think there's this idea that, health and wellness can start to be like this sort of selfish pursuit. And I suspect it probably can be in the way that we could probably make anything a selfish or self centered pursuit. But ideally, when I have a full tank, I can be more present, more of service, more giving, more loving, more compassionate, more patient, more fill in the blank of anything you want if I am doing the things that I need to do.

We talked about this in circle last night. To be like to be like, it's great that your intention is to be your fullest self for all beings, for everyone else. I'm like, but like have you have you put in any time to fill your own tank in pursuit of that? Because if you don't, eventually you're going to break down and you're going to it's going to come out sideways. And and then and then you're out of integrity because now you are not behaving or engaging in a way that is congruent with your mission and intention in pursuit of your purpose.

So I want everyone to listen. Like taking care of yourself can absolutely be selfish if,

but it But that's the end goal.

But it is so often an act of service. Just like boundaries and like clearly stating your boundaries, taking care of yourself at a conscious, thoughtful, mindful way is almost always an act of service that benefits your entire world. It benefits every person with whom you come into contact. I have never left the gym or a a a spiritual practice, a yoga practice, a breath practice, and not felt more grounded and able. It's just unless I was unless the rare occasion where I'm like I have the flu and I should I should just be at home, right?

Generally it's like when I do these things that fuel me, that nourish me, that give me what I need, that is the place from which I am more capable of engaging in ways congruent with who I want to be, who I intend to be. So it is not selfish in any way to take care of yourself.

Right. Because in taking care of yourself, you're able to pursue your purpose.

When you're on an airplane

Put on

put on your mask first before helping that child next to you. That's right. Because if you pass show up. If you pass out, that child is not doing well. Okay.

Especially if they're your child. Assuming that they're your child. Yes. That there's a there is a reason for this. And so, inherent in that, like, airplane teaching is not like, well, then take all the time you want.

No. You put your mask on quickly and then you help the child. Like so, like, we get to live in a context of reality. But yeah. Sometimes you need to take a break.

Sometimes you need to eat food. Sometimes you need to take a nap. Sometimes you need to take a day off. Sometimes you need to tell your spouse, I need an hour to go to the gym because, because when I'm done with that hour, I will be here in a more grounded way. I can show up more fully with the less resentment.

Absolutely. Because pursuing purpose, going after that which makes us feel the most fulfilled is gonna be work. Right? And it, like, yes, it is fulfilling work, but it's gonna require putting in a substantial amount of effort and attention and intention behind it. And in order to keep showing up and doing that, like you gotta, yeah, you gotta have fuel in the tank and you gotta take care of yourself and you've got to do that with integrity for self, integrity for your your mission, your purpose.

Yes. And

or a consideration.

People are, people are putting in work a lot all the time. And so I think it just becomes an important piece of this puzzle when we think about, well, what work are we choosing to put in and why? I remember talking to someone when I was in my 2nd Broadway show who I knew from doing regional theater and had a pretty significant drinking problem. And by the time we were working together in the 2nd Broadway show, this person had become sober. And I was relatively new to the understanding of, like, sobriety and what that looked like.

And so I said I I started asking some questions in a very curious and, like, sweet way because, you know, and so this person indicated, you know, their personal journey of sobriety was one where they would go to meetings every day. And so I looked at him and I was like, I was like, you go to a meeting every day? Thinking that's so much work. Like, what an unbelievable amount of work that is. I didn't say that, but that was my thinking.

So I said, you go to a meeting every day? He said, well, I went to a bar every day.

Mhmm.

And it's just the way that we conceive. It's like, oh, right. You took your valuable time and your energy and your money and you placed it in this way. That's work. Now we can we can we can choose to say that's relax like, it's all work.

Right? If we think about like the scientific definition of work, it's all work. Right? So and so now he's like, now I'm choosing to take my time and my attention and put it somewhere else. It's really not that different.

Yeah. Where do you where are you directing your energy if you're going to the the definition of work?

Yeah. And I suspect that he probably I don't wanna put words in this person's mouth, but based on what I know and like other people that I know in sobriety, he probably feels more aligned with his purpose at the end of his meeting than he did at the end of his time at whatever bar he was at. Again, I am not sober. You know, I I drink alcohol. So but I think it's a good example of well, there's all kinds of work.

Like, what are we choosing? So when we say, yeah, there's work, it's like, well, you're putting that work in anyway. The work you're you're making choices all the time.

Right.

So it's really it's not it's not a matter of making more choices. It's a matter of making conscious choices. So what choices do you wanna make?

Intentional choices.

Yeah. And then and then then integrity becomes a tool then to be like, is this choice in integrity with my intention and mission in pursuit of my purpose? And it starts to get a little bit more clear because it either is or it isn't. Okay.

Now this is this is a big topic, but we I think we got there. I think we we got to a place that

I got fired up a little bit. Yes, you did.

And it was

I was feeling feeling the feeling the the I don't know, the Energy.

Yeah. Because if we think about the purpose of why we're doing this podcast Yeah. Is to bring a message, bring experiences that we've had to as many men, specifically queer men as we can, to help bring them along this journey. Well,

is that our purpose or is that our mission?

It might be our mission.

Is is our is our purpose to feel deep love, fulfillment, connection, satisfaction in doing work that is congruent. And our mission, one way that we do that is through having this conversation with the hopes that other men can then get clear about their purpose and have that seem deeply lived experience from which they can serve themselves and their communities and their families more fully.

Absolutely. And seeing it in real time how you being in connection to that lit you up.

That's right. It did. So this is episode 3. If you don't know me, I just got really excited. But it's because I I love I love talking about this stuff and I and I see what it can do for people.

When I witness people living with greater ease, more comfort, more connection, more authenticity, and creating the life and the world that they want to live in, it it makes me float. Much like when that woman told me that I was giving her like, it just like there is no check that I that I could take that would make me feel these moments. I think that is purpose.

Mhmm. Beautifully said. Beautifully said. And with that, I think that the ground that we covered today barely scratches the surface. And I invite everyone here, listening, to think about what it is that lights you up.

And I hope and I wish for everyone that you get a taste of that, even just for a moment every day.

Mhmm.

And that you can begin to really align your life to more of that.

My invitation to everyone is to allow yourself the journey it takes to get clarity around this. Be gentle if this is the first time you've really thought about it and allow yourself some play, some fun, some flexibility, and some patience in this pursuit, but know that there's gold at the end. So I feel very complete.

I feel complete as well. Uh-huh. Uh-huh.