Rediscovering Joy in Men's Work: Unlocking Personal Growth and Purpose Through the Embodiment of Joy

Welcome back to The Circle. My name's Eric, and this is Tim. Together, we explore men's work, embodiment practices, and personal growth through our queer perspective. If you haven't already, please be sure to like, subscribe, and leave us a review. Today, we're diving into joy.

Why it's important, why it can be elusive, and how men's work can help open us up to experience more of it. Tim, are you ready to go all in?

I am. Let's do this then. Let's do it.

So Tim, you and I have sat in a lot of circles where we've seen men sit with grief, anger, fear, but joy? That seems a little bit more elusive. So today we're gonna dive into that and talk about how in men's work we often say we're in these spaces to face our shadows. But what about our light? What role do you see joy playing in a man's personal growth?

Well, I think that joy is an essential component for finding our purpose and passion in life. And joy is a tricky thing because men have been historically allowed to have certain kinds of emotions, which is why I think in these spaces, we're doing a lot of exploration of darkness, of sadness, of grief, of loneliness, because they have been off the table. We're not supposed to be impacted by those or or we're only supposed to be impacted by them in very particular ways, and so we've compartmentalized them. So we walk in kind of needing a full experience of them. Well, joy, happiness, these sorts of things, we're allowed to have, but we're supposed to have them in particular ways.

Right? And so, and I I just have this feeling that a lot of people are like, you have to be mindful of exactly how joyful you are in the way in which you are joyful or happy or effulgent because you wouldn't want it to seem gay. Right? So, like, how can I be how can I still signal to you that I'm, like, super masculine but enjoying this moment? And so that I think joy gets tricky because we probably try to customize it in a particular way, in a palatable way.

Like, I can be happy, but I have to be happy and still be these other things.

And so it's to have to look a certain way or be expressed in a certain way or for a certain duration of time.

Right. So, you know, I think one of the images I have is the, watching the Super Bowl or any football game really, And you're with your buddies and, like, the team does something you want them to do and you're very happy. You get that sort of big effulgent, like, yeah. You know? But it's like, there's still, like, a level of, like, intensity to that.

And can we have other can we be aware of other kinds of joy? And I feel like that's a thing that we need to work on. So can I experience joy when it is a little more subtle, when it is softer, when it isn't the big scream? Mhmm. And and only when we can start to feel that experience and start to recognize it regularly will we start to understand the things about in our life that we're passionate about or the and that lead us to our purpose.

Because joy, the way that I describe it, are like little breadcrumbs from Hansel and Gretel. Right? And the more times you notice that experience, chances are you're on the right path. And if you're on a path where you only get a few breadcrumbs or no breadcrumbs, that should probably indicate something to you. But how many of us are walking down a path and we we're so disconnected from the experience of joy that we can't even recognize if there are or are not breadcrumbs on our path?

And so joy is, as I said, like a guidepost to passion and purpose, but we need to be able to experience it and recognize that experience in order to utilize that guidepost.

Yeah. So what I'm hearing is it sounds like, joy is more of an embodied experience than it is necessarily an emotion. So, like, I'm just trying to rationalize this for myself. Right? Like, joy and happiness in my brain could be synonyms.

But what I'm hearing is that joy is more embodied, right? It's more of that, like, how does it feel in my body and the recognition of it? How does that full rapture of energy feel. And so can we unpack that a little bit more and talk about how joy might show up in the body?

Yeah. I mean, I can talk to you about how I think it shows up in my body. And I should say, just going back, I did a little research, and so there is a distinction between joy and happiness, but there's a lot of disagreement about precisely what that distinction is. But I do think you're right that joy is an experience that we can have an embodied experience of, and that embodied experience can be really informative. For me, joy has a lightness to it.

Joy has an ease. It is a steady, calm, easiness to it. It isn't exactly excitement, although excitement can be so the thing about, you know, emotions with these experiences is they can be, like, crossover. So I can be joyful and excited. I can, you know, joyful and a lot of things.

Joyful and, you know, quietly content or Yeah.

We can do two things at once. Yeah.

But so so the feeling of joy for me feels like it's lightness and ease, whereas, like, anxiety feels like tension and holding or anger feels like heat. You know? But I imagine, you know, for every person listening to this, there might be a slightly different experience of joy, you know, depending on who they are, how they are, their constitution, and their upbringing, and, you know, their experiences.

Yeah. Because my experience of joy is more of like a full body radiance. I don't feel it in any one particular place. It's like my entire body is just like fully online.

Well, you talked about this last night in the circle because I told you that ego eradicator, an embodiment practice for those of you who are new to this. It's a it's a an embodiment practice. It's sometimes also referred to as radiance charger, which is like in the Kundalini yoga tradition, and it's a more trauma informed way of of discussing it, And you really like that. So when you said you were feeling your radiance, can you try to go inward and talk about that from the felt sense perspective? What does that mean to you?

The radiance of joy to me was this full body experience where it just lit me up, lit up every inch of my body inside and out. There wasn't a single place of darkness. It was just like a full body and it really brought me into the moment. And as I studied my own reaction and my own experience of joy, I really started to understand that for me, joy is when I'm fully present, where there is nothing else that matters in this life except for right here, right now. So if it's doing something with somebody or by myself or in a group, if if the rest of the world melts away, I'm in a state of joy.

Well, I'm really glad that you said that because I was, as you know, relistening or rereading the Velvet Rage, and he mentions this, we cannot recognize our joy if we're not present. So this idea that joy is an experience that's happening in the present, and if we are not present because we are thinking you know, forecasting into the future or ruminating about the past, it might become invisible to us. And so why is embodiment such an important practice for men, especially if they're looking for joy in in the pursuit of their purpose and passion? Although, to be clear, joy like, looking for joy is a a valid pursuit in and of itself. We're not gonna be able to do that if we don't know how to be present.

And embodiment helps us to

be present. Practice being present. And it is. It's something that, like, I found really interesting is that, like like, I can practice at joy, just like I can practice with my edges of sadness, anger, grief, and frustrations, right? I hadn't really considered how I could incorporate embodiment practices in a cultivation of that.

Like I said earlier, I think that I've really come to learn or see men's work as a way to explore my shadow, and now starting to see it as a way to really also dive into my light.

Right. And that I hope is a big takeaway from the last two circles here in Provincetown, this idea that joy is a thing that we can practice. And as I mentioned in the circles, the yogis knew this for a long time. And so in the Yoga Sutras, there are very few mentions of the practice of asana, asana meaning seat or connection to the earth, but frequently, associated solely with the practices of physical postures and and shapes of the body. There are very little mentions of it because yoga is so gigantic, but this one mention, the connection to the earth should be steady and joyful.

And it's an indication that we aren't doing them so this is the thing about joy. We're like, we can't walk around the world sort of hoping joy hits us. We have we we can instead practice working with joy, and that's what the yogis do. So when I'm doing my asana practice, yes, I can be very serious and spiritual. Lots of people kind of go to that place.

You could also practice being joy being joyful. Can you make this posture a joyful posture? Can you bring joy into a posture that is otherwise really challenging, in the same way that we would do with steadiness? So I'm in a balancing posture, and I'm struggling to keep my balance, and I'm, like, practicing with steadiness. Can I do it?

And then but the thing is, it's like, but if I fall out of my tree pose this is why I say in my yoga classes, if you fall out of a pose, you've got a smile.

I smile a lot, y'all.

If I fall out of tree pose where I was practicing steadiness, can I now practice joy? In the same way that I would practice joy if I found that tree pose and was like, oh, we've all had that moment.

Nailed it.

Oh, I'm nailing this. I'm like, this is impressive. I feel incredible. Yeah. And I've done that, like I

didn't know my body could move like that or, like, hold this position. Like, I'm now celebrating myself. And, yeah, the

the I mean, remember one time I was demonstrating a handstand at Jiva Mukti Yoga, because it was, like, the peak pose for you know? And I popped up and for and, like, this has almost never happened to me, but I'm like, I popped right into this balance. I'm like, oh, I could hang out here for 10 or fifteen breaths. I don't know how I did it. Of course, I was teaching, so I did not have that luxury.

Like, I had to come down. But I had a moment of like, oh, that was really fun and joyful. Mhmm. Now can I practice joy when I don't have that experience? I hope so because that's the experience I'm almost always having.

Handstands are tricky for me.

Yeah. I've never been able to do one except for on a wall. So

Well, every time you practice, you know, you're practicing steadiness. And then when you fall out of it, if you smile, you're practicing joy. Yeah, love it. One of the things I

when you were starting that, you said, like, you know, if we just go through life expecting joy to, like, hit us in the face, it made me think, like, yeah, like, this external search for joy I don't know is how I'm going to recognize it. I'm going to recognize joy internally. And so that to me starts to say, the world can't tell me how to experience joy. But if I listen to myself, I can find what might be bringing me joy. And that makes me think of authenticity.

And I want to

Well, before we get there, because you just brought it up so beautifully, it feels like you're making the distinction between joy and validation.

And,

yeah, again, in the book, The Velvet Rage that I already referenced, there is the distinction is made that joy is an intrinsic experience coming from the inside out, And validation is obviously coming from the outside in. Oh, I think you look really good. I think you did that really well. And the tricky thing is, like most things, they can coexist. So someone could validate you for a thing that you feel really good about, and now you're having, like, a dual experience.

Right? But we should be really clear about, well, the true joy that we are looking for, especially if we're looking to, like, find our passions and is gonna come from within. It cannot be dependent on an outside source because and I'd like for us all to think about this for a minute. How many times have you done something really well or you've looked great or, you know, whatever the thing is, and you don't get validation for any number of reasons. A lot, I would have to imagine.

And it doesn't mean you didn't do it well or that you don't look great. If we are dependent on someone noticing and then and then choosing to tell us, which can have so many factors, many of which have nothing to do with us, then we are setting ourselves up for disappointment. Like, oh, that person really recognized how great I was, but they were in a hurry. So they didn't say anything to me. If I need them to say something to me and they didn't, oh, I'm terrible.

Mhmm. In reality, you're like, no. You did that great, And it's all about this going in. So if I can be satisfied with, I feel really good about having done that well, great.

And then anything else is icing, extra. Because the joy can carry you through. If it's connected to joy, if the thing that you accomplished or the outfit that you put on or however it is that you are moving through the world, expressing yourself, connecting to your authenticity, if it is authentic to you, yeah, you don't need that validation. I don't need that validation. Sometimes I crave it.

There's no doubt about that. But that also is a study and a practice for me to be like, oh, then that thing that I did, right, wasn't really the thing that was bringing me joy? Or maybe I was doing it for some other alternative reason or purpose.

Well, and we are social beings, so we are allowed to want to understand how we coexist with other beings, especially if they matter to us. But right, I'm thinking now of an example, I think it was yesterday, where I was going about my day. I think it was kinda busy, and I wanted to do a practice. I wanted to do a practice because I know I knew I would feel better if I did it. And so I did one.

It was like a thirty minute Kundalini yoga practice, and and I did it because of how the feeling I cultivated within me from the inside out. Until this moment, or maybe I mentioned it to you, I don't remember, but until this moment, like most of the world did not know why I was doing it, and so there was no one who was gonna be like, you did a really great job or you're so disciplined or any of that. It was I'm doing it because I know how I will feel when I'm done, and that feeling is worth doing the thing. Connecting to that, I think, is really powerful. If it if it required someone else to pat me on the back, then I never would have done it because no one was gonna come and sit in my living room and watch me for thirty minutes.

Although, I would argue

I mean, some

people did a really good job. No. No. I'm I'm I'm kidding. And I'm hearing that, like,

you tapped into something. You were able to, like, listen to yourself and say, what am I wanting in the moment? What am I needing in the moment? And then being able to recognize like, oh, I want to do a practice and I want to do this specific practice. Coming out of that at the end of it and recognizing that it brought joy is what it sounded like, or it brought some sort of contentment, fulfillment, that it was connected to your truth.

Right?

And the intrinsic experience. Can I start to look inward and notice Before I start to look outward, can I look inward? How do I feel? How do I feel when I do this? And I think we should all make that the measure.

How do I feel when I do this activity or that activity? And if the answer is more often than not you don't feel good, I think it's time to contemplate the doing of that thing.

I want to go back to how we can have some of us have had experiences where our joy has been policed, right? Or our expressions of joy have been ridiculed or shamed in some sort of way. So, I think about certain expressions of joy. Laughing joyfully, dancing joyfully, singing joyfully, like some different expressions of joy that to some are really comfortable to do by themselves. Like, if somebody's got music on, like I tend to do this a lot.

Like if I'm by myself and I have music on, like I'll sing and I'll dance and I'll like do all that stuff and I like feel present. I'm in the moment, I'm feeling joy. But then I catch myself, I'm like, what if somebody's at the door? What if somebody's outside? What if somebody's looking in?

Right? And I start to get really self conscious. And so I wanna talk about that a little bit, about how self consciousness can prevent us from fully expressing and feeling our joy.

I think any previous experience we had where we were told that we're not doing it quite the right way, it should look a different way, we'll carry them with us until we work through that. But, yeah, I suspect a lot of people are managing their experience of joy so that it is palatable and appropriate. I remember one time, I was actually dancing in a touring show, but I was in the studio by myself and I was doing like was just, like, bopping around. I wasn't, like, dancing, dancing, bopping around. And my partner, she walked in and and saw me, and I turned around and I was like, oh, hey.

And I think her expectation was that I should be embarrassed, that I just got caught, like, dancing. But I wasn't, and I understand why some people might be. So I think we have to start to recognize, you know, men's work in this podcast, all the stuff we're doing, it's really human work. And we need to have a conversation around normalizing the entirety of the human experience. So we've talked about this already.

Like, emotions are a human experience, not a feminine experience, and then only some emotions are masculine. We've talked about that. So what is the the range? Like, what is the the maximum total emotions that we are that are available to us? And chances are we are all capable of experiencing them to to greater or lesser degrees.

So why would anyone be embarrassed or or feel compelled to hide their joy, their jubilance, their exuberation, whatever. Is it exuberate? Exuberance. Exuberance. Thank you.

Exuberation. Yeah. I just I just made up a word, everyone, and I and I feel joy about that.

Numerous coming next week.

But there's a lot of cultural parts that are stepping in to say, but it should still seem broody. It should still seem mysterious. It should still seem really masculine. It should seem that's too much. I mean, if I think about when I first heard about

There were times that I've been told you're too much.

Totally. Well, when I think about my first introduction to pride parades, like long before I had ever been to one or or even understood what that was, I remember the talk was about how everyone is too much. It's too big. It's too loud. It's too colorful.

It's too you know? And then fill in the blank. And why? Why are we afraid of Joy. Big expressions of happiness?

Why do they have to look a particular way? Why can't I scream at the at the Super Bowl when my team gets a touchdown, but I can't be equally happy in a different situation or context. And I think like the emphasis on this resilience and grit and I like start to think like how can we reframe joy Just like we've reframed vulnerability as a strength.

How can we reframe joy also as a strength? And nurturing that, that we're not just in practice in a chi generator to you know, hold a disciplined pose and be like, oh, I'm super serious right now. Like, how can we also say like, yeah, that is a certain type of strength, also strengthen expressing myself and being joyful?

Yeah. I think we have to I think we have to give ourselves the permission to play with it. I can't tell you how many times I've been in men's circles and one of two or the only queer gay person in the room, and I I get to the moment when we're gonna do, like, eye gazing chi generator. And, you know, the man in front of me wants to, like, snarl and growl and, you know, which is, by the way, totally welcome, totally valid, and also available to me. And I'm just not in that place, and I start smiling at him.

And it's like, right. I can I can I can engage the same thing differently? They're both fine. And good thing about these men's workspaces and spaces where conscious people are doing conscious work is it is accepted. But there are still moments where I'll see a flash of, oh, you thought I was gonna meet you with an intensity of one kind, and I'm meeting you with a different kind.

Mhmm. So I think I think that we we do it by playing with it, by talking about it, and by keep continue to bring it. I mean, you know, you at the at the retreat, you and your partner, Mikey, your practice you were offering was one I had never seen before, and it was unapologetically, like, joy, community base. And and I think that is an example of, yeah, we can get really primal. We can talk about the warrior.

We can talk about the magician and the king. Can we talk about the lover in all of his forms? Or does it only have to be, like, the lover when we are, like, ravishing our woman, which, you know, is, like, the talk often? Is that the only way we can talk about the lover? I would argue no.

There's probably lots of ways we can talk about the lover and the power of the lover. There is a reason that there are four masculine primary archetypes and the lover is one of them.

Speaking of retreat, like one of the things that I recall, and I think this goes back to that balance of validation and joy and how it can be a tricky balance. So often in these spaces, many straight men, Men outside of the queer community are not used to receiving compliments. That's right. Right? So one of the things that I was doing on retreat was I just started going up to men and I was like, it's effusive compliment day and you're very handsome and you have a great body.

And, like, I was, like, showering them with love and praise and affection, but not in, like, a sexualized way. Like, it was not sexualized at all, and they did not receive it that way either. They were just so lit up. Were like they were like, woah. Like, I've just received a compliment from somebody that I love and trust and, like, it feels good.

And, like, they lit up. And I was like, yeah. Like, you can spread joy pretty easily by that, like, just reminding people, you know, that very handsome and they have a great body.

Yeah. For the record, I was at that retreat and did not receive one of those compliments.

You received it several times.

Did I? Yeah. Okay. I was I was also I was also really busy.

Because the joke ended up being like, oh, I thought that was just for me.

Oh, okay. Okay. That's right. Oh, that's right. Okay.

So people really I'll own that. I'll own that. But it's different. It's different between the two of us.

Yeah. People really leaned into it though. And it really was an expression of of love. It was my expression of the lover in a way, and it was received in a way that people could, like, activate and they could feel joy from something like that.

Let's talk about that for a second because and I'm I already have a a theory of my own, but I want you to just think about all of the love you've ever experienced in your lifetime. And then think about how much of that love was romantic sexual love. And when we think of it, that I'm gonna have to assume less than 50%. Right? Because we've loved our families and our friends and our teachers and, you know, our communities and different we've loved geographic locations, and we've loved experiences.

You know? And so the idea that we're going to talk about this experience as if it can only be this one thing for it to be, like, acceptable? Like, a man can only experience, like, the lover archetype or love when he's ravishing his woman. Like or, like, occasionally when he's caring for his children. Like, well, what about his buddy Yeah.

That he would go to the ends of the earth for? Can can they tell each other they love each other? Can we take this stigma away of, oh, maybe that means that this about you or that about you because we're so afraid of that? And instead, no. I'm a human being capable of loving.

Love is good for everyone. Let's do more of that.

In in all of the ways.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So joy. Mhmm.

Joy is a way to connect to our purpose. It's a way to connect with other people. It's a way to show a piece of ourselves that is as important and as valid as all the other stuff we have to do. We still have to work on our shadows and figure out where our triggers and our edges are. We still have to, you know, be honest with ourselves about our shortcomings or our weaknesses and and think about ways to, you know, fortify all aspects of ourselves.

But chances are we're not going to

be very successful if we don't ever allow ourselves the experience of joy. So for those that are a little uncomfortable with expressions of joy, I think of I want to ask you what practices, but I also want to give a spoiler, right? Because last night Tim led the embodiment circle and we were doing a big physical exercise. And then when we went into stillness, Tim invited us into any expression that was wanting to come. And he had on a really great song that was a fun beat.

And the invitation silently was like, if you want to dance, dance. And it was after a big movement practice where it's hard to, for me anyway, it's hard to just come to full stillness. And so that practice was a way, from my perspective, to help men who may be a little uncomfortable with expressions of joy, like dance, to kind of bridge that gap. So I want to just pass it over to you now and other ways that men, if they are feeling uncomfortable with any sort of expression, how they can maybe take some baby steps.

Well, okay. Baby steps. I'm gonna I'm gonna say the opposite of a baby step, which is sometimes you have to give your like that fake it till you make it, you have to give yourself permission to be really big. So, you know, in acting and in and in theater, it'll often say, you know, it's better to be bigger and have the director pull you back than for you to be too small and then have to, like, pull it out of you pull it out of you. And so I had mentioned, I forget when, in one of the circles that there are many joy and laughter practices built into a lot of different traditions.

And it it just demonstrates the necessity for sometimes like, oh, we all need permission to practice this, and we can come into a very exaggerated form of it. Because in so doing, then I start to get a sense of, like, where the edges of this experience are for me and where I tend to gravitate most naturally. So I would say that's an important thing. But if we're doing baby steps, one thing I would say is, you know, create a playlist of songs that make you feel, like, lighthearted, that uplift you, that bring you closer to that experience so that you know, oh, hey. I can always turn to this resource and begin to shift my mood.

I would say if you can, journal when you notice. And journaling doesn't have to be, like, long hand in in a piece of paper. It can be, like, a note. It can be a voice memo. You know, what you know, modern world, do what works for you.

Yeah. If you have a person that you really trust and you start to share that, to be like, hey, I just wanna mention earlier when we were doing this thing, felt a lot of joy. Because I think really just shining the light of your awareness or attention on the experience of it will clue you into it and looking for more of it. So that's where I would say start.

I think like something that I've struggled with is recognizing the things that I can do by and for myself that can light me up and radiate me versus the things that I do for others. Because I'm a caregiver. I like to give a lot of love. I like to share where I can. I like to share my wealth.

I like to share my space. I love to share my food. Whatever it is that I have, I wanna be able to give to others. But that lights me up and that brings me a lot of joy, that is reliant on the other. And it's not that I ever Like I have people over for soup on Tuesday nights and like, I don't need a compliment, right, for the soup that I'm serving.

Yeah, it feels good. But like my joy wasn't like preparing the soup and getting it ready and then ladling it out for people and then, like, serving it. Like, that brings me joy. Whether you like it or not, I don't care.

Well, you care a little bit. I care a little bit. But but but, like, all the soups have been so yummy. But I would invite you because you talked about this now in the last two circles. Maybe if you're open to an invitation are you open to an invitation?

I am. Perhaps, you know, in the short blessing that you say before we all eat your delicious soup, last night was cream of mushroom Mhmm. And it was really yummy. Invite us into your experience of joy. As a modeling that like, I I derived much joy from the process of creating this, and then that maybe creates a space for other men to be like, oh, okay.

Well, what even if they ask the question, well, where do I derive joy? Or just noticing someone else claiming that experience and and the benefit there. So that's an invitation. You can take it or not, but I feel like I feel like it would welcome us all into, well, where is my joy?

Yeah, because the reoccurring theme to men that come over is the almost guilt that they feel from coming over empty handed. Because we do this right after circle where they may not have had the opportunity to like go out and like get something to bring to the table. And there's this societal expectation that you can't show up empty handed. And like, I'm insistent. I'm like, I don't want you to bring anything because doing this brings me so much joy.

And I almost want to say like, don't rob me of my joy.

Well, I think you did say that last night. Made that joke. Yeah.

So it's like, there's that and there's also like this aspect of like, you are enough. Like, just bringing yourself is enough because having you in my space brings me also joy.

Well, how many times in your life have some has someone said that to you? Exactly. Yeah. And I bring I bring it up for that reason. Like, for a long time, I even when I even when I did exceptional things, it was never enough.

And so settling into the experience of, oh, I am enough, and my fullness is wanted here without adornment, I think that's a really intense practice for a lot of people, I think especially queer people. I will share a story. I remember I was doing a summer swim league outside of Pittsburgh, which is where I grew up. I love Pittsburgh. Go Pittsburgh.

Mhmm.

And it was the final meet, and I was racing for I was in a few final events, but the one I wanted the most was the 50 yard freestyle. I would like it was like the glamour event, and I wanted to win it. And I was so nervous, and I did not feel like I had the support and you know? Anyway, I ended up winning the gold medal, but getting a terrible time. Like, relatively speaking, it was not a good time.

I I had a bad race, ultimately, but but I still won. I remember I was happy that I won, but then I went after we did the awards ceremony, I went to a family gathering, spoke to my uncle, and I was like, oh, you know, I won the gold medal. And he's like, well, what was your time? And I told him what the time was. He's like, ugh.

Well, he's like, you know, that's good, I guess, but, like, you know, that time isn't and I think a lot of people have had that experience of it couldn't just be there was always this other thing. Right? And so if we live in a world where even when something great happens, like arguably winning a gold medal even though, you know, age group 12, you know, whatever, but winning a gold medal, that still wasn't enough. So later in life, when I show up at your at your soup with no bread or sparkling water or whatever, you know, I'm gonna have to practice allowing myself to be enough just as I am. And so I think that's why community here is so important, why satsang is so important.

We can remind each other, which I think you are doing well. We can remind each other, you're enough. You're enough. You're enough. And then when you have dinner, you can remind me that I'm enough.

And when you know, like, well, that I think is built into the men's work space is, oh, community that will remind you,

hopefully. Well, the 12 year old Tim, you did great. You got the medal. Thank you.

Fair enough. My uncle wasn't wrong. My time was bad. I do you know what

I But you were still joyful and happy having accomplished something.

Yeah. You know what? I really wish someone had talked about, like, well, why were you so nervous? And and, like, and, like, addressed my anxiety. I'm, oh, because I don't feel safe or protected.

Mhmm. And I feel like if I don't do incredible things, no one's gonna love me. That would have been I mean, not that we we don't we wanna stick with joy here, but like, I'm like, oh, yeah. So We can hold two things at once. We can hold two things at once.

That that would have been a more powerful Yeah. Oh, I'm I'm terrified because no one here has made me feel like I'm enough. I always have to be, like, overperforming. Mhmm. And that was a great lesson to be like, even the gold medal isn't really enough.

It has to be the gold medal and a personal best or or a pool record or you know? And you're like, okay. Well, if that's my standard, then it's gonna be increasingly challenging for me to ever have this experience as I keep raising the bar.

Even as that bar gets higher and higher and higher, taking time to celebrate and finding joy because of the handstand practice, right? Like as you're teaching, you're an exceptional teacher, so it's like you are at that peak, your bar is pretty high. And then even the fact that during that moment, you could find that joy, you could find that celebration of like, Oh, I just got up there real smooth like. I think even as that bar, because it is a good practise in life to continue to, for me, it's not about chasing excellence, but it is okay to encourage myself to do better, right? To consistently improve.

There we go. It's not do better. It's consistently improve towards something. And sometimes I take a step back and sometimes I take a step forward. But as long as I'm, like, moving towards improving on something and that's my intention behind it, like, can take those moments to, like, celebrate progress.

And also, I think we need to practice joy in what we might call, like, the ordinary, the mundane. So if we go back to the yoga example, I'm not entirely sure why, but I really like triangle pose. Mhmm. It feels good in my body. It comes sort of naturally to me.

It isn't a posture that I have much farther to go with regards to, like, the limits of my flexibility, you know, and yet I feel really good. And when I'm deeply connected to my breath, then, you know, it's a place where I can find joy. I don't have to take triangle pose and try to levitate in that pose, you know, in order for me to feel joyful in it. You know, twenty years later of practice, and I still can find joy there. And I think that's the other side of this.

Do you have joy when you are, you know, driving in the car with your kids? Do you have joy when you are cooking, as you mentioned? Do you have joy when you are gardening? Do you have joy when you are reading? Do you have joy when you are meditating?

And chances are there are breadcrumbs of joy for you scattered. And the more you can notice them, pay attention to them, and feel them, the more you can cultivate having more of them. Who doesn't want more joy? And every the good thing about joy is that everyone benefits. So when I am authentically joyful, I know the way I show up is impacted, and therefore my interactions are impacted.

In the same way when I show up rageful, it has an impact, right?

It sends out a different vibration.

Yeah, that's right.

Yeah, one of the that, one of the breadcrumbs that I've been noticing lately is poetry. And not improv poetry, so I am not gonna do it on the spot, but like reading poetry, taking my time writing poetry. I went to the library today and I got a book of children's poems from Shel Silverstein. And I remember as a kid loving them so, so much. And I could sit there for hours and read them and lose complete track of time.

And I go back to like, that's my signal to myself. When nothing else matters in this world except for where I am, what I'm doing, who I'm with, that's joy. And when I read Shel Silverstein's books, nothing else matters. My phone doesn't matter. That email doesn't matter.

Nothing matters except for right there in that moment, and it's joyful for me.

Love that. I love that. Here at The Circle, we talk about joy. This emotion in my life, it is like a toy. Sometimes when I play, it makes me so glad.

When I can't see it, I could feel bad, but I don't because I'm joyful. Well, okay. Wait. Yeah. Yeah.

No. But We might we might edit that out. No. Mean, sure. But, like, it

was also a very beautiful moment. This is a and it was a beautiful expression of your authenticity coming out.

I am I think I'm excellent at writing bad poetry.

Mhmm.

I I do. I think it's like a skill that I have. Like, so I it's not poetry that, you know, you would do a serious reading of. Mhmm. But but I I think that I'm like maybe they're limericks.

Yeah.

They've got they've got a they've got a little wink wink to them. They've got a little there's there's a camp factor to them.

But it's also my dance training. I like a little bit of rhythm. I like a like a a a rhyme and rhythm to it. Yeah. Yeah.

So for anyone anyone who knows me who's listening to this, you've probably heard some of my poetry. I'm not gonna read it now because I'm a professional. But, yeah, I I do like know? And it does bring me joy. It does bring me joy.

Here's what I will say. I wrote that poem two Valentine's days ago after talking to friends in the locker room at the gym. We were all getting ready to do our workout and talking about, you know, did we want chocolates or flowers? Or, like, what you know? And I'm like, I don't really want any of that.

They're like, oh, but writing a poem. And so then I wrote a poem for my friends with the intention of making them laugh. And not only was it successful, it did make people laugh. It also brought me an enormous amount of joy in the creating of this thing. So I do think, like, a concept I wanna talk about is how creation is can be so joyful and so nourishing to the human experience.

So creation does not necessarily need to be a poem or a song or a piece of art. It can be any number of things, but it can be creating community, you know, creating conversation, you know, anything. Baking a soup. Yeah. Well, cooking for sure.

Absolutely. And and how important that is. So if you're looking for joy, obviously, discussed having an embodied experience of that can help you, but also start creating in whatever in whatever way you do and see if you start to

find some joy there, looking for those breadcrumbs. Ways to express yourself to then unlock love and expression in others. Ways to express yourself. So like if I think about your poem, right? Like it was a deep connection for yourself in a creative creation moment brought you a lot of joy.

And then in the delivery of it, you were able to also unlock joy in others.

Yes. And and then I received joy knowing that they that this made them smile or like brighten their day or,

you know Beautiful circle.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

But remembering that looking for joy and the experience of joy doesn't necessarily need that. So that to me feels like a like a beautiful extra. But there are moments when we can cultivate joy purely because of how the experience is for us, like the practice I mentioned. But, yeah, joy can compound. And then, like, I do something joyful that makes you happy while your happiness makes me happy and, you know, we're like a snowball of joy.

Yeah. We're just, like, vibrating in this joyful frequency.

Rolling down the hill getting bigger and bigger and bigger. Like, joy, joy, joy, joy, joy.

Two boys just experiencing their joy.

I'm not gonna go any further.

I feel like I'm not the improv.

The end I'm not the that poem. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Laughter and and, you know, all that.

But it is good for us Mhmm. To be joyful, to be happy, to be glad, to be at ease. Yeah. I think this is why laughing practices were so important because it can also it can also shift. So when I'm when I'm down, I can use laughter or or trying to practice joy in some way as a tool.

So have I told the Perma Smile story yet on this podcast? I'm going to. Okay. Mhmm. So I'm excited to tell this story because I made something up, or I thought I did, as a as a, like, as a little queer boy on my way to to musical theater rehearsal.

And then it turned out that it was, like, steeped in, like, you know, ancient you know? So, anyway, I'm with my friends, all of my theater friends from West Allegheny High School in Western Pennsylvania. We were on our way downtown because we were doing a community theater production of Jesus Christ Superstar. Mhmm. So we felt like big deals because, you know, we were doing the high school musical, which was also really excellent.

But you're like, okay. Well, this is community theater, you know, like the next step up. Anyway. And my high school had an enormous amount of talent in in it. Now I I mentioned a lot of people say that, but I I really mean it.

People who have gone on to be opera singers and, you know, whatever. And anyway, so I'm in the car with four, I think four or five other people, all of whom are, like, very talented in whatever way they're talented. And this one girl, Bianca, such a beaut she was physically beautiful and had an incredible voice and singing talent. And she was so cranky. Something had happened.

She was legitimately, like, not feeling happy. And I remember saying, well, you have to perm a smile. And she's like she's like, what's perm a smile? I'm like, you have to put the biggest smile on your face that you can, and you have to hold it for a minute. And I'm just making this up.

But, like and so she put it like she's like, I don't wanna do that. I'm like I'm like, gotta do it. And, like and then, like, she did, like, showed it halfway. I'm like, no. No.

No. I'm like, you have to do, like, the biggest smile. So if you're seeing me, like, a really big smile. You know? Now if you and I were to do it, maybe we should

do it. That's how we're gonna close today.

No, we we have time actually. Shall I shall I set a timer? Yeah. Let's do it. Okay.

Okay.

So so And for all of you listening, you're more than welcome to join us as long as you're not driving.

Or even if are driving. I think you can do this when you're driving. It's just a smile. Okay. We're we're gonna try okay.

Let's just let's just do for the podcast. Let's do thirty seconds. Okay. Thirty seconds of Perma Smile and like this now you and I are already a little bit happy. Yeah.

Yeah. But like imagine if you were like, I'm grumpy. You can hit a bad day.

I can tap into it. I'm

a grumpy pussy. Yeah. Now we're just gonna Perma Smile. So three, two, one, and go. Okay.

So it doesn't it doesn't it doesn't usually happen it doesn't usually happen this fast if you're cranky. It doesn't usually happen. Okay. Okay. Well, that was twenty four we go.

Here we go. That was twenty four seconds. We got our point is made. Now if we were cranky, it might have taken a little while longer. It might have taken a little while longer.

But I've never watched a person willing to do that practice that doesn't ultimately end up giggling or laughing by the end of it. And who would have known that that that that I was tapping in? Oh, I will say this. I then heard this teaching from Dechen Thurman, an advanced certified Jeeva Muthi yoga teacher in, I forget, the early aughts, who said, oh, it is said that the yoga teachings and practices will emerge spontaneously when needed. And when I heard that teaching, I remember I thought back to that moment where I thought, I don't know where I got the idea to Perma Smile, but I was essentially doing one of either yogic or Kabbalistic laughing practice, and it worked.

Mhmm. So the takeaway from this episode is Perma Smile. And maybe now that we're doing this series of little practices, maybe we'll just do one where we just Perma Smile.

Smile three coming at you soon. Listen.

It works. It does. It works. Tell us a little bit about your experience of Perma Smiling.

I'm continuously smiling. Can still feel, like I just naturally want to get into a smile.

I see a smile on your

Yeah, like it's just there. After just smiling for thirty seconds, I'm like now I'm like can I ever remove this smile from my face? Am I ever gonna be grumpy again?

Yeah. Well, if you when you when you are inevitably grumpy again, perm a smile.

While also acknowledging that I'm grumpy. I also don't to gaslight myself out of my emotions.

No, you get to experience what's So I think we should we should sort of conclude our episode today then with a brief conversation of the moment we're in right now. We're in a moment when there's not a lot of great news, specifically if you are a queer person, even more specifically if you are a trans person or a trans person of color. Like, there are a lot of headlines and legislation and things that are occurring that are not good. And as you rightly said, it isn't our job or even very helpful to ignore the authentic experience that we're having. So we are allowed to be disappointed, angry, any number of things.

But we're gonna wanna channel those emotions in a conscious way in the direction of solution and support, but we also need to make sure that we don't get so mired in the overwhelm and the anger and the frustration that it starts to have a deteriorating effect to our own well-being, mental, physical, spiritual, energetic, all of that. And so can we create spaces where we can tap into joy even when it feels like the world is crumbling around us? What what what would you say about the importance of joy in this moment, political moment?

It can feel elusive, that it can feel distant, can feel forced. And that's the invitation. Like even in the darkness, can you shine a little light? And even if that's just like raising the corners of your mouth just a little bit to see how it feels. And as somebody that's on antidepressants right now, I understand.

It can be a big ask to smile. I get it.

What is that quote? Ours is not to curse the darkness but to be the light. Beautiful. That is an inaccurate but famous quote from, I think, a former president. But I like the idea of we there's a lot of darkness, and we're welcome to scream at the darkness if we want.

Absolutely.

But the way we transform that is to become the light in the darkness.

That's it.

Yeah. And so practicing joy can help that. And, like, the Perma Smile example, which I definitely recommend, will feel forced at first. I never smile that big. It's not the way you know, it's not you know?

And allowing ourselves that too to be, like, just in the same way that you go to the gym and do things that you wouldn't probably do in everyday life, like at the grocery store, you start doing them at the gym. Same idea. We're gonna, like, we're gonna emotionally practice. We're gonna do this thing. And then we're gonna take our anger or whatever else, and we're gonna direct it in a conscious way, and we're gonna change the world one day at a time.

Fuck yeah. Yeah. Alright. Well, thank you for being with me in this conversation. I feel still just a nice glow to my cheeks, and my cheeks are just, like, shining.

I just feel very joyful right now. So with that, I feel complete. How do you feel?

I also feel complete. I feel complete and joyful.

Yeah. Will you take us out, please?

I will. Let's close our eyes unless you're driving. Take a deep inhale through the nose. Gentle exhale through the mouth. And in this moment, come with appreciation and gratitude for the sacred space, any insights or awarenesses we may have gained.

And as we leave here now, I wish everyone safety, community, love, and with these words are containers open but not broken. Uh-huh. Uh-huh.