Leading with Heart: Steve Azar on Community, Spirituality, and Transformation

Welcome back to the circle today. We're joined by Steve Azar. He's a real estate entrepreneur and environmental engineer whose career spans multimillion dollar redevelopment projects and purpose driven work From creating sustainable inclusive housing to reimagining Provincetown's iconic Gifford House, Steve brings intention and heart to everything he does. We'll explore how his spiritual practices and his experience with men's work have shaped his ability to lead boldly and stay grounded. Tim, Steve, are you ready to go all in?

I'm ready.

I'm ready.

Alright. So, Steve, you've tackled some very ambitious projects over the years. Could you give us a quick overview of some of the major ones like the Gifford House and share how you've managed to balance the pressures and complexities of taking on such big challenges? Great questions.

I've I've worked in a variety of different fields over the years from city planning to engineering to redevelopment projects. In the background, I've always had a brokerage license. And I've always been sort of taking on personal projects, whether it's the home I'm living in and flipping or whatever. You know, very typical of gay people. Always with an eye for design.

But, the project span from infrastructure redevelopment projects, which had to do with, you know, expanding channels and actually taking properties by eminent domain from, some folks who, was difficult to displace. And other projects like developing, high rises communities for for folks and really focusing on the functionality and the amenities that come with that. But the common thread from regardless of what project I've worked on is really sort of what's at the heart of the project and how it works and how it impacts people. And so, you know, moving for moving through any of those projects, I'm always sort of holding on to that thread of, not necessarily the bottom line, but, how to how to best create space and communities that use that space, is sort of what I do.

So part of what I just heard you say was there's a word that I love, impact. So with the projects that you're doing in town now, what is the impact that you ultimately wanna have in this community?

It's the whole reason why

I took on the project, to be honest. No. I mean, really, there were a million projects that I could have done after leaving, selling the stowaway, to the Summer of SaaS. And one of the probably the only real reason why I ended up getting to the point of actually moving forward with a sale, because I didn't want it to just go to anybody. I I really wanted the next step of it to be correct.

With Summer of SaaS moved in, and they said that it could help, you know, upwards of 30 kids a year. And that to me was the right move. I didn't know where I was going to go. I didn't know what was next for me, but it was I listened for universal clues a little bit, not to get too woo on anyone. But as soon as something feels aligned or correct, even if I don't know what the next step is, I often will just surrender to whatever that is.

And so, once they moved in, I kind of that was actually the moment of, oh, no. I I really don't know what's next. And even though I can talk this great game or, you know, I have these beliefs, I'm scared because there's a finite amount of money that will come from this. Inflation is going through the roof, happens to be right in this moment. The dollar amount that I already said yes to is deflating by the minute.

And worse, I had forty five days to identify, my next project, for tax reasons. I was doing a $10.31 tax exchange. And so I I looked all around the country, projects everywhere, and identified up three. And all three of those projects fell apart within the forty five days for a variety of reasons. There was a a random burial site on one of them, and the bank didn't feel comfortable.

Like, just random stuff that I couldn't foresee, and I was pushing the energy and pushing it and forcing it because I did not wanna lose tax money. Because this is what I do, real estate. So if I if I'm not doing real estate, what am I, you know, like, oh, uh-oh. And so it was, like, day 43, and I was walking by the Gifford House. And I was actually saying goodbye to everybody and packing my bag.

And I was sounds, crazy, but I was, like, thinking I was just gonna go to an Indian ashram and just sit for, like, six months and just really sit with myself and really sit with what just happened. Like, I just gave up my whole life, blew it up, probably leaving the community that I love, you know, trying to understand what I just did for these kids. Right? And and still being very okay with it, but trying not to understand why the universe kinda, like, didn't step in. Right?

And it was day 43, and I just I was raw. And I looked up, and the owner was there. And I just I just said, hey. You know, it's this older gentleman. He was in his early seventies or somewhere about.

And and I said, do you own this? You know? And he's like, yes. I said, what are you doing? You know?

And and the club was closed. The bar was half closed. The hotel was mostly closed. This was one of the places that made me fall in love with town. Right?

I mean, it's it truly had a heartbeat to it that's unmistakable and and just sort of beautiful in its own authenticity. Right? It's never trying to be anything that it really isn't, and that's what I loved about it. And so I I just sort of looked at him, and I, from, like, my deepest truth, said, you know, I just sold something in town, a business that I loved, that I had just created, where I was trying to grow community. I had started an artist residency.

I was 2020 had happened during that period. I was, you know, trying to create all kinds of little micro events for the community to sustain itself, whether it be through markets where they were six feet apart or whatever else. I was constantly pushing, trying to to create that. And everyone kept saying, you're in the wrong place in town for this. Go somewhere else, which for me was, like, ultimate rejection.

And as a queer person, rejection is, like, not it. Right? Mhmm. And so I I thought, well, I guess the town doesn't want me. But then when I was having this conversation with the the then owner of the Gifford House, I said, often these buildings have purpose that are outside of us, and we are stewards of them.

And if you're not giving the full potential to this property in a town where the vibrations are a lot bigger than you or me or anything, it's about a whole larger community, then it's time to step aside. Mhmm. You know? And and I and, you know, the the story goes on where I just kinda, I offered him. I said, you know, you're probably scared to sell.

You probably don't even know how. You know? And I said, it's it's really complicated. I said, what we're gonna do is get you a lawyer. I'm gonna get a lawyer, except it's gonna be you and me at the table.

And at the end of this thing, you and me are gonna be really good friends, and you're gonna sit at the bar, and you're gonna go to the shows, and this is still your building too. Because I'm just gonna be a steward like you were a steward, and we're gonna do it for the community, and this is the time. And he looked at me and he goes, you remind me a lot of myself at your age.

Mhmm. So what I heard you say there was a lot about building community. So when we talk about impact, sounds like that was partly what you did when you were when you made the sale that you mentioned. And then part of the reason why you decided to buy the Gifford House was so that you could continue to create community. Am I hearing you correctly?

Yeah. I think I've done a lot of work in my own journey from embodiment to to everything, and I've really sat with what makes me tick and where I wanna be. So I did all these redevelopment projects. I built high rises, which was my ultimate goal. I had reached a level of director, which was my ultimate goal.

Equity, I had done my own side projects. And I kinda got there at a a relatively young age. Right? And and and in a world where my dad wasn't the CEO. Right?

And so I I, like, had to fought from New Bedford. Mom was a school teacher. Dad was a social worker. And this little brown boy is, like, going through white society, you know, trying to trying to make his own name and did, essentially, right, to some degree. And once I kinda got there, it was evident that it didn't speak to my heart.

And so I went on this whole thing of and that's why for every project, what I said before is I was trying to constantly try to find the heart in every project. How am I benefiting community? How am I benefiting people? Am I giving a positive vibration out? Is my work meaningful?

You know? It matters to me. And so, I'm a Cancer. I don't know. I just have a heart, and the heart needs to just do what it does.

Right? And so, and so for for I started writing, and I started writing, the purpose that I wanted. When I was at the stowaway, I did Ayahuasca. I had all kinds of breakthroughs, right, like like a lot of people go through. And what kept coming up for me and my purpose, different from everybody else, and no purpose better or worse than anything, was I would look around at the world, and I simply don't comprehend, I don't understand why people are mean and judge other people.

I don't understand why we, aren't in full support of people's authenticity. I don't understand why certain people think power comes from holding other people down. Like, there's just, like it it just, in my psyche, doesn't add up. Right? It's because my heart is not wired that way at all.

And so I said, I would love to hold space somehow for people's true authentic expression to appear and for them to know they are loved for who they are as they are with and that's it. And, otherwise, it's a vibration of joy. Right? It's like, just come, have a good time, get up on a stage. You don't have to drink.

You don't have to do drugs. There's no expectations of you. Other people might be doing all kinds of things at any kind of way. It's humanity. Let humanity bud and grow.

Let's all see each other for who we are, and that's it. It's not that much more complicated than that. I don't wanna make it some grandiose other thing. I just want to hold space for truth and for peep for people's authenticity. And so I kept writing it.

And I was like, I don't know what that looks like, but I think there needs to be a stage. You know? I don't know. I don't know. But I I think this, and I would just keep writing it.

And I was like, I've never owned a theater. I've never owned a stage or even a bar or a club for that matter. You know, I had no idea, but I did know that the truth and sort of the string of it is the Gifford House. Like, way before me. I have nothing to do with it.

You know? It's like it's existed on this property, and it's why I've always been attracted to this property. I never thought I could afford to do a project like this. I never thought now mind you, the banks had rejected three other projects before me that were a quarter of this size. I ended up within I met the forty five day window.

I went to the bank, and it was green lit in record time in a way that I didn't understand. Like, I I literally just I had to I was like, you sure? They were like, Steve, you put a business plan together we've never seen. You we we we believe in you. We're gonna take a risk with you.

I've never heard a bank say they would take a risk, period. Mhmm. Never mind with you know? And I don't have backers. You know?

Like, it was literally I just they believed in me. I believed in them. We all did it. And so far, so good. So it's been really good.

It really speaks to me with the the the power of the heart. When you do things from the heart and you are leading from the heart, like, how the universe will conspire to help you. And all the way to like my jaw, like to anyone watching, you just saw my jaw drop when you said how fast that moved. I mean, you were at like, I was here on the seat of like the edge of my seat being like, oh my gosh, is he actually gonna be able to do this? And I know, I know how the story ends.

And I was still captivated. I was like, oh my God, is he actually gonna be able to do this? He's got two days left. Same. And within a matter of days, this incredible project comes to fruition and starts to manifest itself because of the power of the heart of setting that intention and the impact that having such a strong and pure intention can have.

So I thought that was that was really beautiful. Thank you.

Thank you. I've been also really trying not trying, but maybe doing. I've been holding that vibration. And it's not easy. It's an entertainment complex.

It's artists. It's creatives. Or, you know, it's it's, queer people who come from all kinds of backgrounds and maybe have been abused or traumatized in some ways or don't believe in community even or I mean, I've seen it all. Yeah. Yeah.

And I love them all. Right? And so I literally just sit back and every time they come, a practice I've been doing, which is, is part of an embodiment practice, is I really sit back. And every time someone springs up and everybody has their anxieties and everybody has their confusions or their or whatever it is, and it's good and bad or whatever, or it's not even good or bad, it just is. Right?

And so I'm just uncomfortable or neutral. Yeah. Just whatever. Right? And I I I I just sit there.

I usually hug. It's usually a big hug first. And then I, I, like, consciously and maybe this is woo, and I don't know

if we should talk woo woo woo woo woo

woo woo woo woo.

Yeah. Bring it.

I will, like, consciously go in to sort of my consciousness. I will go down to my heart. I somehow go through my heart into their eyes and down into their heart, which is very specific, I know. But then I I imagine myself as them, like, a hundred percent. I am them.

Right? And I say, wow. Okay. So I probably had these experiences, and I might be going through this at home, and I might have and I just sit there, and I just make my I I feel compassion no matter what it is. And they might be a billionaire, and I'll still feel compassion for whatever that experience must be like, you know?

And, and I'll get to the core of it. And then from there, no matter what they throw at me, I I think I'm that person. How would I wanna be treated right now? Or what would I what do I need to hear to feel good? How do I you know?

And I and I that's my practice.

Mhmm.

And it's, it's every day. It's with everyone. And it's it's, so for me, I have a ton of actual gratitude because the Gifford House for me is, like, the deepest place of practice that I could have ever found in in a really beautiful way. I don't know if that translates or if that makes sense. It it's sort of like there's so much going on all the time and everything that it's like practice for me to be truthful and honest with integrity around that thing I wrote.

Mhmm. That I wanna hold this space and that even if you have a goal in life and you get that goal, it doesn't mean that it's all roses. Right? Like, it's not rainbows and butterflies. Everything's wonderful.

And that it's all hard work. Nothing in life is not hard work. Nothing in life, you know, is like, oh, I made it and everything. It no. No.

No. There's always a process, always a journey, and just remembering that. And then also, you know, on the hard days just thinking, like, no. I asked for this. And and It's it sounds

like you're talking about when we when we mentioned, like, taking the yoga off the mat. Right? Like, you there are places where we come and do these practices so that we can refine them or expand our capacity in them. But the real work then is bringing it into the day to day. So having conscious awareness in my day to day, having compassion in my day to day.

And that's really what I'm hearing you talk about, like taking these skills and say, well, maybe I can do them on my meditation cushion or in my journal or on my mat. But can I do it when there's a deadline and the person in front of me, like, needs their money fast or they're upset, you know, whatever the thing might be? And I think that's really a admirable thing for us all to strive at. Like, can I be a spiritual person when I'm working through the world?

100%. I, so when I didn't think this was gonna go forward, years ago in another strange situation, I own some land in Costa Rica now. Right? It's beautiful land. I was gonna create a retreat center.

I was gonna go there and do all the woo and live, like, a very easy, simple life, much quiet, you know, literally me sitting, meditating on the side of a hill. And I sat with that for a long time. And what kept coming up for me was you're alive. You have greater impact. Impact.

Right? Like, hold this like, do the hard work. We're not here to go sit on the side of a mountain and meditate. I mean, maybe some of us are, and that's wonderful and lovely. But I I'm not in this life.

Right? And so in this life, it was like, nope. Roll up your sleeves. Dive in. You're good.

I'm grounded. I'm okay. Give and love and be love and show love and pull love out. Right? And so, it was it it very much that practice of, like, yeah, I could go and just sit and meditate and do it all inside.

I already I do. Now how do I how do I do that for others? How do I show up?

Yeah. Right. How do I bring it to the world? You know? Because it is hard work.

Like, you know, even sitting meditation can, to some people, be, like, the the world's hardest job. Right? Like, I would sometimes, I would rather, like, do the hardest manual labor than sit still on my cushion.

Absolutely. Right?

Like, it I think it just it's very subjective. It's very contextual. And I think that there's there's room in the world for all sorts of practitioners and and different ways of of being a teacher and a leader and a guide. So, like in like you said, in this manifestation of this life, right, this is your post. This is your post in life.

It's It's

my post. Yeah. And I'm happy with that. And, I just did a Vipassana. Mhmm.

And I would recommend a Vipassana Okay. To just about anyone with good knees. And if not Or a chair. And if not, find a good chair. Find a good chair.

Right? With some yoga blocks to lift up.

Yeah. But I, it was ten days. And the interesting part of that is, you know, the reason why I did a Vipassana is because this last season was, wow, like, powerful. The business did, you know, it was tons of events and tons of things going on and tons of energy all the time, and I just hold space. So if you've ever hold held a party, you know, and you had some people over or whatever, it's like that, but a thousand or 1,500 people, and they're in this building that you're responsible for.

You're responsible for their health, wellness, benefit, and joy. You know? And it's like, okay. Which is which is fun and fine. And, you know, you get used to it.

But it was a lot. And energetically for me, I need quiet to rejuvenate. And there is no time to process or quiet to rejuvenate. And so what I did mid summer, just about August, I, like, went online. Someone told me about a Vipassana, and I booked it for December thinking, like, if oh my god.

Ten days of silence without a phone is the ultimate luxury. Like like like, I I need that. And so all summer, what got me through is knowing that I was going to have this process time. And I ended up doing it, and it was one of the most, difficult. It's sort of like learning how not to suffer, through suffering.

And, it it really helped me, in a lot of ways. And so I I do recommend that. Where did you go? I went to the Vipassana Meditation Center in Western Mass, which was it's through dharma.org. Yeah.

And you can book 21

of the 100. Berry Mass?

Yeah. It's close to Shelburne. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. So I went to their their sister property, Spirit Rock

Oh, okay.

In August. Amazing. Mhmm. So I I love a Vipassana. Like Loved it.

But I also, like, I get really tempted sometimes of, like, being on retreat. I'm like, okay. I want to I want to be here. This is the post that I wanna take. I want to, like, live on a retreat center.

I wanna, like, be in retreat mode all the time. And then I realized I'm like, no. No. No. No.

Like, I do believe my impact, I feel like similar to yours, like, is going to be out in the world. Right? Like, my post right now is not going to be at a retreat center even though I get so tempted every time I go. I'm like, oh, I just want this to be my life twenty four seven. Right.

And then I try to figure out how do I incorporate it into my everyday life. Exactly. So one of the things we talked about earlier, more something that I, I heard you say was, around maybe a limiting belief around rejection and, and that, that feeling of rejection that might be coming from the banks or elsewhere. So I'm curious that like, when the bank said, hey. We're willing to take a risk on you.

And the Gifford House project began. Mhmm. Like, while this massive renovation project's happening, what were some of the other things that may have popped up for you that, you know, started to challenge you of, like, oh, is this possible? Can I do this?

It it the way it happened and where I was in in my practice, I it was ultimate surrender, I will just say. Now with that, it was surrender with you better get it done because someone just believed in you. And that this is for the town, and it's not about me. It, like, it hasn't been about me. Right?

Like, I don't generally post about myself. Like, it's it's, I believe in the project as a whole, and I'm really happy to to be a leader sort of around it, to steer it more than lead it. Right? To sort of, like, make sure it's safe almost. There were so many things that that came up.

I think one of the biggest challenges in the renovation was that I had six week I had inherited a building that barely had Wi Fi, that had never run a credit card, that had structural physical issues with the building, that hadn't been updated in sixty years. And anything. Mattresses, anything. You know? And so from an affordability standpoint and from there was obvious financial things that I I I took huge gambles and risks on that were well outside anything that I was ever comfortable with with my own wallet.

You know? I mean, I've made decisions for large corporations, but I've never done it for myself. And it is different, it turns out. And and and I only had six weeks before the first guests were coming. And I had to renovate 18 bathrooms.

I had to clean up, refresh a club. I had to repaint and refresh a bar. I think for me, the magic that existed as the Gifford House, I didn't wanna lose that magic through my design, if that makes sense. Like, oh, I'm going to change this color. And and because I say it's this color, everyone's gonna love it.

It like, there's some kind of magic to having a lot of people's creativity be a part of it, and a lot of people own it, and allow a lot of it to, like, change and morph. And so all I wanted to do and my only goal was to actually make it a little more basic, to be honest, so that we could have other people add their art and their visions and their things and sort of curate from that standpoint. But economically, it was a huge challenge. Getting contractors and the right people in, timing was a the whole thing was a challenge. It takes a lot of time,

energy, and effort to make a blank canvas.

Yeah. And also, I want into it one of the the first things I did was create a moral compass for the project, which was, like, it was two weeks. I didn't even know if I was going to get the project. And I started writing what we would do. What if it every time someone's hired, they would have to sign the paper that these are our, like, precepts of how we treat each other, what's expected, but not from a, you must move that there every night and clean that or whatever.

It it's like, who you're gonna be when you walk in these walls, how you're gonna treat people, accountability, responsibility, those kinds of things. And it matters. Because sometimes someone does something, I'm like, hey, babe. Number four. Yeah.

And

they're less. Corporate values.

Right? Like, basically,

that's the reason why we have corporate values in the first place. There is to to really align people to, like, hey. This is the way that we engage here, and we wanna invite you and welcome you in. Like, this is how we expect.

And I even took that a step further with guests and patrons. And so we even have sort of guidelines for, hey. If when you step here, you're not stepping into just anywhere. This is a house, and these are our rules. Mhmm.

You know, it's sort of the community's rules. Yeah.

So you spoke, about your own personal practice and and the way that you approached. And now you're talking about these precepts with your with your staff. Are there other like, are you bringing in these sort of concepts and ideas with your staff? Is is that part of the conversation you have with the people with whom you are creating the space and maintaining the space in the events?

Absolutely. And with everyone. And I'm constantly banging the drum of it in the background because very easily other everybody comes from their place. Some people desire power even within their own role. Some people desire all kinds of things, right, without getting into it.

And I just begging the drum, like, hey, babe. I'm I'm over here picking up the cups as owner. Yeah. Do you know what I'm saying? So, like, everybody everybody help everybody here.

This is what we do.

And what is the impact we keep going back to impact. What is the impact you've seen in these individual people as they've been working with you in this conscious way?

Not to be emotional about it, but it's actually

We love emotions.

It's actually, it it it inspires me to just keep going and keep going and keep going because the growth I have seen from some of the most beautiful people. I mean, I don't even know why I'm choked up right now, but I really am because, they are absolutely incredible people. And and they came and they you know, it was just gonna be a job or whatever. And I have seen them test me. I have seen them test the space, test their peers, test everything, and they get the truth.

Because I will I literally stand and I tell them this too. I stand solid and straight, and they basically do this whole number around me dancing, yelling, screaming, pointing, trying to you know what I mean? And I just stand there. Are you done? Do you know what I mean?

Like, I'm still here. I haven't changed. I'm not gonna change, and I love you. And I and then when they start to see and feel it, I hope I I think this is what's happening at least. I haven't necessarily asked them, but this is what it feels like, is they relax.

And they think they can be they it's trusted. You know, I have the majority of my staff is from season one. Right? Which I don't know how often that happens in Provincetown. As a as a point of it's not just words, but it's also actions.

There were some staff that because they're all now friends. Right? We've kind of created, like, a family within this house. Right? It's it's it's an interesting thing.

I'm always calling everybody family, you know. And and even when staff move on, we have a a hotel, manager now who's moving on, wants she wants to get some education and everything, and I couldn't support it more. She's forever part of the house. If she ever needs anything, we're there for her. You know?

And she knows that. You know? If she ever wanted to come back, come back. If she don't wanna come back, that's fine. You know?

I wanna see her kids. I wanna you know? It's like it's become this really beautiful community thing, and that's all I want. That's, like, all I care about on my if if I'm being selfish or something, the rest of it doesn't really matter to me. You know what I mean?

Like, there were a million ways, to make a buck or whatever. But and and in another example, the action's more than words, I heard some staff talking that they wanted to go on a trip. They they were all thinking about it. They were tossing out Japan. They were tossing out Thailand.

They were, you know, whatever. And then when push came to shove in winter, they said, you know, I'm not sure we feel comfortable, like, financially enough, especially with politics and things coming and whatever and our housing situation, whatever it was. And I and I I said, you know what? And I got a bunch of them tickets to go, and we're all going together. And we're gonna go on this, like, huge tour together, and it's gonna be almost two months.

And it's like, as and they're like my OGs who were with me from the start, and we're gonna go. We're gonna have a great time. You know? And I was like, when we go, I'm not your boss. We're gonna go.

We're gonna have fun. Let's let's whatever. You know? And, and so they know it's not just lip service. I don't have to do that.

I don't know anyone else who ever has. You know what I'm saying? It's like, I'm sure someone has, but you you get what I'm saying. It's, I mean it. I'm really proud of them.

I love them. They know it. And it's not to say that they're everybody is perfect. It's not to say I'm perfect. I I mess up all the time.

Then they they are also able to tell me, and then I'm like, oh, that's right. I gotta autocorrect. Yeah. That's right.

Steve, number 4.

That's right. And I'm like, Steve, number four, number four, and we laugh. You know? Yeah.

Well, so I'm hearing I'm hearing this sort of loving, compassionate, trustable container that you've created with your staff. And I am wondering now, like, in the future so in your in your vision, you know, a one year plan, a five year plan, a ten year plan. It feels like it's part of your mission to bring that manner of engagement to not just your staff then, but to your patrons and to the community. Do you have a vision for that?

For taking it to that next level? Yeah.

Well, I'm just I'm I'm curious to

be, like, what you just described is

so beautiful, and I think it's what our community needs. It's, like, trustability, this stability Yeah. And this, like, authentic honesty, truth. You've said truth a lot today. And thinking, you know, you own a a place where people come to gather and you and you create art and and offerings of all kinds.

Right? How how are you envisioning bringing that manner of engagement to the community that surrounds you?

Yeah. So I think it's slow and steady. I think that trust is built over time. I think if if, if to create community, an an integral community, you you have to be, like, sort of a leader of love. Right?

And it and you it's not through words. Like, no one's gonna listen to this and believe me. That's they it has to it has to, like, be experienced. Do you know what I'm saying? Like, you have to go there.

You have to see it or feel it or be hugged, you know, or be inspired to create your own art. Right? Because it's not like I'm even trying to heal or create wellness. In fact, the only thing I really wanna do is create expansion of people. Right?

It's like, come as you are, as broken as you are, or as well as you are, or whoever you are, and grow. Right? And so, like, maybe you do wanna get on stage. We've added we we now have four stages at at Gifford House. You know, when I got there, there was just the the lobby.

Right? Like, which if you can call it a stage, it had a a little piano. There's now one in purgatory, one outside on the patio. The Wilds, we've turned into a hundred seat black box theater. And we barely charge for entertainment if we charge.

And it all depends on who the act is and where they're coming from and whatever. But for me, I want the entertainment dollars to go back to the entertainers. As long as we're making money from, you know, the the bar and the hotel, and we're floating and we're okay, then, like, art, art, art, art, art. So, like, even in the club, you know, it can be one note. People can think it might be dark.

People can think it's about things that aren't great for queer community. So I hear that, and then I say, okay. Josh Moss, get over here. Let's break that energy up. Outside, create a huge mural during the underwear party of whatever you want.

You know? And so now we're paying an artist, supporting a local artist. The people who are at this thing are now seeing art being created right before their eyes during a dance party. They're with their friends. They're just thinking differently.

So for me, it's like, how can we, like, break the norm a little bit softly and quietly so it's still cool? It's still something you wanna do. It's not cheesy or, like, some you know, like, I don't wanna I don't wanna off put anybody, right, by being too too loud. But there is a part of me that the more comfortable I get, the little bit louder I wanna be about the truth. I go back to that all the time, which is about love and authenticity and for each other and to stand up for each other and support each other.

It's very simple. Right? It's like, it's very simple. When you really get down to it, it's just and and I want to see more of that in community. I wanna see more of that in this community.

And so I'll be it. I'll just be it. And people can believe it or not, but it's gonna be consistent. And I might mess up, but then I will figure it back out and I'll it's my core.

I think it's so important to have models or people modeling, genuine love without without agenda. And I know, like, myself as a as a young queer person, gay person, and a lot of the friends, it was hard to it was hard to trust. And I could tell you so many stories when I was going through, like, living in New York City. And, and so what I'm hearing you say is creating a space of, like, trustable love. And I think it will take time for people to recognize that.

Because I I think initially, if I if you've had decades of, kind of looking over your shoulder or questioning, like, someone's authenticity or, like, do they want something from me? What is it they need? Like, is this a trap? It won't happen overnight. It won't it's not a light switch.

Mhmm. But I I I hear you, like, so slowly but surely, like,

it's like a drum. It's like a little drum in the background. It's just like a quiet little, and I'm just, like, hitting the drum. And I'm like, no. I'm really serious.

You know what I mean? Yeah.

Trust takes time, and it takes consistency. Right.

Right? And it

and from the examples that you've talked about, it's what I hear is true leadership. It's not just talking the talk. It's walking the walk. It's saying, like, I am going to uphold these precepts. I'm going to lead with my own heart.

Right? And I'm going to put that out into the world. And if I'm not if I'm if I'm veering off course, I want my staff. I want my my my projects teammates to call me out. Because if they don't, the universe is going to.

Totally. Right? Like, somebody's something's gonna come around and be like, no. No. No.

Every time. Yep.

But this is the importance of conscious community. We talk about it in yoga and in men's work all the time, like having you know, in men's work, we say, steel, sharp, and steel. Like, we need our brothers. In yoga, this, like, conscious community keeps you, like, tethered. We need that reflection because when we are practicing things like integrity, it isn't as if we can just decide, like, I'm gonna be perfectly in integrity all the time.

Mhmm. I mean, we can try. Right? But sometimes we need someone to reflect, hey, that's you're starting to, like, get close to that boundary, and that is also part of the practice. Thank you so much for helping me see something I couldn't see on my own.

Totally. And and then, like, now I can recalibrate if I choose to stay in integrity. It's so important our community and our trustable, like, colleagues that can say a harsh truth to it. Not a harsh truth. A sharp truth.

A sharp, loving, compassionate, heart centered truth that allows us to move forward, and keeps us in alignment. It's so important.

And so many leaders are not open to that reflection. It is like do as I say. Like, we just had an episode come out about authentic power, right, in leadership. And, like, there's so many leaders in today's world that, like, will get or they refuse to accept or acknowledge that, like, they could be doing something wrong or or off. Right?

Especially if it's coming from a subordinate. Like, heaven forbid. Like, somebody below you tries to tell you and it's

like It's just ego. It's ego. It's all insecurity. Yeah. Anyone anyone who's, like, actually grounded.

I mean, I'm, and not I haven't mastered this, so I'm not saying I have. But I the direction I wanna go is, you know, if you're not maintaining open and listening and being, then you're not leading either. Right? Because it's it's you have to listen to everybody. And then if you still are opposed to it, there's a conversation of your truth.

And if your truth doesn't convince them, then maybe you start at a middle ground. Right? At a compromise between the two. So they feel heard. You feel heard.

It's both seen. Instead of it being opposition this is one thing I've learned even with the boards in town. Right? Or, like but, honestly, you know, you go before the historic board. I love everybody on the board.

I love everybody on the planning board. Last night, I went before the planning board because the town did a stop work notice on me on the backs. I was in a high elevation. So it's something I just didn't realize or know. No problem.

Right? They were right. I was wrong. You know? So we stopped it.

Stopped it for months. The the hotel amenity never got out for this last year. I could be mad at that. I'm not. I don't care.

Do you know? So I go before the board yesterday, and it's all about whether it's a board or your staff or patrons, it's alignment. Right? Everyone what people don't realize when they're in conflict or resolution is that it's not me, what my needs are, or your needs. If we are all one and I am you or or whatever without going to woo, and there's a like, what is the common goal?

Yeah. Because the common goal, we can both fight for, and we can both get some of our needs met. And some of my needs is better than none and digging my heels in and and creating an enemy or what it it's like the flow in a way of, like, find alignment and and move forward. That's that, for me, has gotten me through so many obstacles or potential catastrophes even with this project is, like, really sitting and being like, hey, board. As a town, we really need this to do to do well.

In order for it to do well, it has to make money. And it's not right now making enough. And so if I need a little more money, what can I give you guys? And, you know, and what what's the exchange? Like, how do we do this?

You know? And yeah.

You're talking about shared mission, it sounds like. And, in this example, it's really sounding to me like you have a project, they have requirements or whatever. But if you can really land on, well, we both want the P town experience to be great.

Yeah.

Then you're like, from that place, any number of solutions are probably possible. And so that's what I feel like I'm hearing you say that, like, find the shared mission.

Because if you if you find that shared mission, great. And if not, what you might be doing is you might be attaching to preference.

Right?

And then welcome suffering. Right? Like

Cravings. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.

If if you have such an attachment to the outcome Mhmm. And you're unwilling, your heels are so dug in, like, life is gonna be hard. Really hard. It's gonna be really hard for you. Right?

So, like, jump into the river. Right? Start to flow. Start to flow. Start to flow.

Let go let go of the banks and get into the middle of the river and let's go.

I I've gotten that's been a hard practice for me, to be honest, because I do have so much energy. Like, I don't even know how I I don't know where it even comes from, but there's, like, such a, like, a force that it feels like comes through me sometimes. And I think that can be really off putting to a lot of people. Of people. Because if other people are are content or wanna go slow

Or if I'm super if I'm super closed Yeah. Right, if I haven't done some opening work and I'm super closed, like, that's gonna be a put a put off for me.

Oh, absolutely.

Right? Like, I'm not gonna be able to handle that that energy or it's not gonna be the energy that I can, like, handle.

Can you speak more specifically, like, what kind of energy would be tricky for you in that moment?

So, like, even talking about that with with somebody that may be so open and so wanting to, create joy and allow so many types of of humanity to exist in one place. Like, you know, I've I've gone through my own personal, relationship with the Gifford House where I have, you know, been a drinker and a partier and a club kid and I love going out and I love expressing myself and, there was a a long time that it was one of my favorite places to be before you owned it. Right? Like, back when I was vacationing here. I loved I loved going there.

And then, the first summer that I got sober, I loved going there because I was like, it was a place that I felt like I could, like, really, like, like, push myself and, like, be there. And, like, I would go to FagBash. I was a go go dancer for James Cerny for a couple times. Like, it was really like, these were these were challenges to myself in my sobriety. And then last year, I couldn't be there.

Mhmm. This last summer, I couldn't be there. For whatever reason, the energy, I was not open enough anymore. I had closed off to that because that was no longer the truth of the experience that I was wanting. And I didn't think that I could bring my fullness anymore for some reason.

And so, when I experienced an energy like that, or when I had experienced an energy like that, I was like, I was too closed to be able to do it because I was too in my head.

I

was too in my head. I was too judgmental of myself, of others. And I I still have work to do, of course, but I feel like I'm, like, getting to a point that I'm, like, willing to be open enough to it again.

So we're going back is what you're saying. We're planning yeah. We're planning a trip. Trip. Yeah.

To purgatory.

The circle goes to purgatory. To that, I I love it because that's the exact I love that journey even with the Gifford House. Right? Because that's what she does.

Mhmm.

And she's gonna show you you in some way without going too deeper, making it. No. No. Whatever. It's like, she's gonna show you fun.

She's gonna show you maybe where you indulge too much. Mhmm. Maybe where you need a little work. Maybe where you're a little self conscious. May you know, whatever.

You're gonna go on that journey. You're when I did the Vipassana, by day four, I was planning where did they have my cell phone locked up? I am breaking into that cabinet. They have my key, and I am getting like, I was, like, mental because I was so difficult.

Right? I'm impressed you made it to day four. Usually, day two for me.

But the amazing right. But the amazing thing was by day 10, after the whole journey, I saw the I saw I got it. I got the messages. I got the truth. I'm obsessed with it.

Now now I'm, like, meditating every day, like, in my own practice in a way that I wasn't able to before, whatever. But for the Gibbard House for you, it's perfect. And so what I'm what I'm trying to do in steering that ship a little is, one, you don't have to come for the club. We have Cody plays, and we now have trivia, and we

Line dancing, all the Francis.

Line dancing, and we're doing all these other things that we have art classes and whatever. Right?

The live drawing.

Live drawing, and, you know, I wanna bring in yoga and meditation and all this other stuff. But also, I I just I I'm essentially sober, not through addiction, but I it's just where I'm at right now. And I I want a mocktail. So we just created a whole mocktail menu where if you come, you don't have to drink. It's not about consumption and poisoning your body.

In fact, I really sat with myself before moving forward with this and with because it's bad dharma for for honesty. If you're any way involved in poisoning another person or allowing someone to be their worst self, it's on me. Right? Like, ultimately and I kinda sit with that a lot. And that really I almost didn't The only reason why I didn't wanna move there was that was why I didn't wanna move forward with this project was the only reason at one point.

I just didn't wanna be a part of someone's that cycle. But then what I realized is that I can, like, be, like, a little bit of a light bearer, even if people see or don't see me that way, and from their own experience, don't know me or know me or whatever, and come up with their own story of me or whatever it is. I know that in my heart of hearts, my intention is to be a little light bearer within that and to show people that you can be a part of it and even come to a club night without poisoning yourself. And we have zero expectations of you to do any of that. And, also, maybe you can see some of the queer magic that and maybe you can make some beautiful connections, and maybe you can be a part of our community in some a new way.

I don't know. But I love that. I love that you have been on a journey with it because I think that's the work, honestly.

Thank you so much. Yeah. Tim, do you have anything to add before Well,

I just wanna acknowledge you for, this last season bringing a queer spirituality event to the Gifford House. And you and I have had conversations about, bringing more of those things. I think it is so important. So, you know, when we have this conversation about, like, what the queer community needs, I don't necessarily think it's always, like, we have to eliminate these things that we'd, like, say are bad. Right?

I just think sometimes it's like, can we bring up these other things and create balance and opportunity and possibility for the for our community so that they can get a little bit of everything and, like, living in that way. I feel like you're really contributing to that and creating the space for that to happen. So I just want to acknowledge that because, prior to this prior to this summer, I don't think I'd really seen, like, a specifically queer spiritual event, and, I was fortunate to be a small part of it. And but I'm looking forward to being part of things moving forward because I do think it's the medicine that our community needs. And I think especially now, like, as, like, what's gonna be happening in the world, we need to be creating these safe spaces and these conscious spaces and these mindful spaces and these healthy spaces and these opportunities for conversation.

Mhmm. And it's not about not dancing or not going to a party, but it's about, like, but are there are there other things too? Can we can we bring it all? Can we bring it all?

And and to that, that was so eye opening for me. I would say in 02/2024, what I was starting to see and what messages were coming up for me is that nature itself is queer. Right? And you can't really stop nature. Right?

And so all these legislations and all these things, it's sort of you know, there's a part of my inner self that just, like, sort of giggles. It's constantly laughing at it. Like, wow. You're really trying to stop nature from being nature in a way that it will never be the future, will never be sustainable, will never anything. And it's our sort of duty.

It's our sort of job to be our authentic selves and to show up in a beautiful form that we are. And what I got from that particular retreat for me, my god. We had chefs. We had graffiti artists. We had fire throwers.

We had therapists. We I mean, it just went on. We had wellness workers and, all the queer magic, how what what screamed out to me was how absolutely unique and brilliant we all are individually with our own superpowers. I know you had Phil Harmetz on this. I swear to God, we are the superheroes, like, in a weird way.

Like, not not from a narcissistic ego standpoint, but, like, it's baffling to me how magical and artistic and creative and unique. And no one had the same skill at this entire retreat as someone else. And we all were able to come together and, like, share our offering. And we and that that was really inspiring to me, and that I would like to dig into deeper and more over the next year.

Well, thank you for creating a space for it and, yeah, deep appreciation.

And for elevating multiple modalities. Right? There's so many access points to spirituality. It could be dance. It could be the club.

It could be the stage. It could be yoga. Right? I mean,

dancing dancing was my first spiritual practice. Now, obviously, I'm talking about, like, through concert dance, ballet, modern, you know, performance, but but I I really believe it was my first spiritual practice. My first my first grade teacher. Absolutely. Yeah.

And it was funny with this project, at the beginning of it, people people are like, what are you gonna do? I mean, it's a club, so you're an entertainment complex. So this is the note. This is how this is your frequency. This is what your and I was like, no.

The frequency of Gifford House is the full spectrum. Mhmm. Like, it is the full spectrum. So, like, don't expect or come or think or what like, just experience. So so Thank you, guys.

Beautiful.

Really beautiful conversation today. We covered a lot of ground. We talked about leading with heart and the impact that that can have of of desiring and and putting onto the universe the intention to create community with heart and the power that that can have and how listening to the universe and signals can really manifest really beautiful things in our lives and how leading by example can have a beautiful ripple effect in our world as well. So, Steve, I wanna thank you so much for for being here with us today. I'm feeling very complete.

How about you guys?

I feel complete. Very complete. Thank you.

Tim, will you take us out?

I will. Let's close our eyes. Take a deep inhale through the nose, gentle exhale through the mouth. And it is with deep appreciation and gratitude for the sacred circle, for our community, this brotherhood, this conversation, any insights that we may have gained, explorations, awarenesses. And in this moment now, we release the spirits and we release the archetypes.

And with these words, our container is open but not broken. Uh-huh.