Expanding Capacity: Building Real Strength to Move from Burnout to Balance

Welcome to The Circle, a queer men's conversation about men's work, men's embodiment practice, men's spirituality, and men's personal growth with an emphasis on how queer men can participate, benefit, serve, and lead in these spaces. My name is Timothy Bish.

My name is Eric Bomyea. Welcome back to the circle. In this episode, we continue our exploration of the strong man archetype and the pressures it places on men to do it all, have all the answers, and never ask for help. These expectations can leave men feeling isolated and overwhelmed. We'll explore how men can handle these feelings, create support systems, and move away from harmful stereotypes towards a more balanced and authentic way of being.

Tim, are you ready to go all in?

I'm ready.

Let's go. So a couple episodes ago, we talked about authentic power and the concept of the strong man came up. Tim, can you give us a refresher on the strong man archetype and share your perspective on why it creates so much pressure for men?

I believe the strong man archetype is the epitome of the challenge that men are having today. This Marlboro man, John Wayne kind of person who is always in charge, strong, has the answers, doesn't really need help, lone wolf. So many of these things, and we look at it. And what happens in these movies, you know, James Bond or whatever, you're like, oh, you have money, you look cool, you get laid by incredible people. I want to be that.

And what it doesn't do is it doesn't, represent the authentic human experience. So I think what happens is that we see this idea and we try for it, and we struggle, but then we are prone to admiring or idealizing a person who seems to have it even though, no one does because it's not real. Every person has needed help, has, needed to reflect. They've needed to pause. They've needed to wrestle with, a failure whether it was like big or small.

And, you know, we've talked about it so many times. Every Olympic athlete that we've ever revered as a gold medalist, they needed a coach. They needed someone. They've all had them. I don't think I know any I can't they've changed them maybe, but I don't know anyone who didn't have one.

Giving them feedback from the outside in. Right? And in my dance career, same idea. Like, I needed people who had been there and who had done it to tell me things I couldn't quite see because I was so busy doing other things. That ability to rely on people and to know that we need that support is the opposite of this idea that I need nothing.

So when we think about the strong man archetype, we think about, I don't need that coach. I don't need that help. I don't need that lesson. I don't need that time. But that isn't the human experience.

And so when we think about men's work and what we're doing, we're thinking about how do I allow myself the thing I need to be that person? Because there is a John Wayne. There is a Michael Phelps. They're like these people exist, but, like, what did it take to actually get there? What did they actually need?

They needed this humility to not always be the best. They needed the humility, and we've all seen this, to say I need to get, I need to put my, I'm the best in my school. I'm the best in my region maybe. And now I need to find the pool where there are people who are as good or better than me or I'm never going to get better. The humility, the vulnerability, the courage, the bravery, that is the, the magic that takes those people from the best in your and then fill it in.

In your in your league, in your school, in your district, in your, you know, in your state and takes them to, like, oh, you're the best in the world and honoring that. I don't know if I answered your question.

Well, so I want to unpack a couple of things here. 1 I just had an insight that like so going from like high school and up right? Like so like I was an overachiever achiever in high school where I was like, I need to be, I wasn't the best in the class, but I was like striving my way towards the top. And I really like was putting myself forward intellectually. And I thought like, oh, I'm gonna apply to a great school, get in and like, you don't do that.

I'm gonna go up to the bigger pool. When I got to the bigger pool, I realized, oh, wow. I used to be the big fish in the little pond. Now I'm a very little fish in a very big pond. And there are some very big fish in this pond.

And it actually didn't inspire me. It actually did the opposite. My after my 1st semester, I crumbled. And, like, I said, well, guess I'm just gonna give up then. Right?

Because, like, I was surrounded by all these, like, very ambitious high achieving people and I was like well I can never be that. And so I actually like like got to a point where I was like almost started flunking because I just like started to like give up. And so part of part of it is this this archetype, this this I can do things on my own and I'm not gonna ask for help. In that moment, I needed to ask for help. Mhmm.

And I didn't have the humility to do it.

But is that what stopped you? I'm gonna I'm gonna jump in. Is that what stopped you? Because I wonder, like, the the motivating factor, was it were you motivated by being the best or were you motivated by pursuing the thing you wanted to pursue?

I'm not quite sure in this moment.

Because I think if you're motivated, if one is motivated by being the best I just wanna be the best. And it felt good to be the best, and I was the best in high school. So I'm gonna try to be the best here. And so I go to be the best, but then there are people who are better than me and I can't be the best. I'm gonna fall away.

Well, like, my example is like a dancer. I was good, but I wasn't the best. But I loved it so much that I was continually inspired to to try to continue to be my best and maybe the best. At some point, I I think I hopefully got to the point of, like, I'm not interested in the best, but being my best. And to be clear, I was never the best dancer.

I was a good dancer, and, I think there was a moment when I was my best dancer. But I think that's a really important distinction. So, it is alluring to feel like, oh, I'm really good at this. So maybe this is what I should do. I think men's work helps us to understand, well, is that really what you you should do?

Or like, what is your heart and soul wanting you to do? And if you're pursuing what it is you want to do, purpose, mission, intention, then you'll likely stick with it because you're like, well, I can't imagine my life without it. I was always a dancer until I wasn't. Yeah. If that makes sense.

Yeah. I think, like, I don't know. I mean, I was 17, 18 years old. Right? Like, I don't know that I had a clear idea of my purpose.

I was kind of just, like, going along with it. Like, it was like, I think this is the right next move. Right? And I remember very strong feelings of being overwhelmed in college of like, oh my gosh. Like, I have taken on too much.

I think at one point, I, like, thought it was a great idea to try to take 21 credits. And, wait.

Just to for clarity, for me and for our listeners, what is a typical 12 or 16?

12 to 15, I think.

Is a lot.

I think that's like

Well, 15 to 16 is 4 full full credit classes in the semester. Yes.

It's a lot.

Yes. With a lot of homework and reading and yeah.

Okay. Yeah. And so, like, I was trying to do like a double major, double minor, like, all these things. I would like have this idea of like this like very specific degree program that I wanted to like create for myself And I was just like I, you know, I had the curse of more before I even realized it. Right?

Like, I have always been that, like, just pile it on. And I remember distinctly, like, these feelings of overwhelm of, like, not being good enough, not being able to, like, do it on my own. Like, I would even go to office hours and, like, you know, I was so ashamed to go to office hours to, like, ask for help. You know, I was trying, but, like, I really, like, I don't think I had the humility then to really truly say, like, I can't do this on my own and I need help and support. Yeah.

So I think, like, I was very early on, like, trying to model these strong man archetypal and stereotypes of, like, I can do this on my own. And if I can't do it on my own, then I'm not good enough. I'm a failure. And so I mean, I struggle with that even today, but like back then definitely it was like very clear that I had these these challenges.

You know, the strong man archetype is a tricky one because it doesn't allow for really any part of our human experience. So imagine you and I, I'm like, let's go for a jog. Right? And even if we were like I have friends who were like very, practiced runners who like to do half marathons and marathons, you know, whatever. The idea that you would like maybe like slow down or take a break during your jog is, like, not unheard of.

But when we think about, like, the representation of this archetype, like, when when do you remember Superman having, like, taking a break? And I don't. I I remember him, like, being chained with kryptonite and then, like, starting to crumble. But there was never a moment where, like, I just flew, like, around the earth, like, 25 times really fast in order to, like, reverse time. Right?

That scene I'm trying to remember now, like, where he we never, we never watched him catch his breath.

Right.

So, but we're all trying to be that. And so when I stop and catch my breath, am I a failure? And I think the question is legitimate because, well, if I believe these images where I'm never supposed to have to do that, then probably. But we're all human. And you're like, of course, we watch again, I'm gonna go back to I I wanna talk about the Olympics

Let's go.

Just all the time. Like, can we change the name of this podcast? I you watch Olympians at the end of whatever they've done, and they collapse because they're exhausted. And there's something so beautiful about that. We and that's, I think, part of the magic of the Olympics.

Like, oh, you just like cross country skiers, like falling down at the end of their races because they've just used every ounce of what they've got. How unbelievable. And yet we can't somehow bring that into our daily life to be like, oh, if I do something really big and really, you know, I get to have a moment where I collapse and recover and, you know, and yes, the difference would be there's like media and people that like flags and, you know, whatever. But like, can we create that for ourselves when you finish a project that you've been working on for 2 weeks or a month or whatever, and you're and you, you know, and, like, it ends up going great. Like, can you give yourself that?

We should all learn how to give ourselves that.

To Volley, you I just heard you say, like, finish the race, finish the project.

Mhmm.

For me, like, I've gotta learn to take breaks during the race, during the project. Because what ends up happening is I burn myself out because I'm I'm I'm sprinting to the finish line. I'm trying to get to the finish line. So, like, when I run, I'm a sprinter, right? Like I'm a 6 6 and a half minute mile sprinter.

I want to get it done. I want to go fast. I want to go hard and like I don't take breaks during that. I push myself to the point of like when I finish my thing. I'm like I'm I fall on the ground But what ends up happening is I'm now sustaining a knee injury that I've been nursing for several months now Yeah.

That, like, comes and goes comes and goes. I think that it's getting better and then all of a sudden I do something and I tweak it. Right? And it's because I tried to push myself too hard and I don't take the breaks that I need to avoid that moment of collapse at the end.

I love what you're saying because we've seen it in the Olympics a 100 times, a 1000 times where there's a person who was like gung ho and they are leading the whole time. But the person who will ultimately end up winning that gold medal is the one who understands that pacing, that that like, oh, this is not a bullet being fired out of a gun. This is an ebb and flow. And can you imagine the mental discipline it takes to be the eventual gold medalist and see that person darting in front of you and they are 200 meters in front of you. Right?

And you have to remind yourself, I've trained. I've trained. I know. I know how this goes. I know what I can do, and I cannot try to chase that person right now.

And then we've seen it, and it's a little bit heartbreaking for the person who is doing it, but they will often get eclipsed. And it was and I think I saw this on Instagram, like, when we, something about, like, leaving our goals, we follow our systems and, like, that system, that practice. Well, I've practiced this. I know what I have to do to get to this place. And so that's like the skill of men's work.

Can I learn my pacing? Can I learn can I understand the arc of the experience? Can I understand to the best of my ability what it is I'm trying to create and what is reasonable in the creation of that thing, which will inevitably mean spikes of hard work, spikes of rest and reflection, spikes of editing, you know, whatever the thing is? So I love that because yes, I think we need that ability to, it's like active recovery. Can I rest without stopping?

Yeah. I also have been starting to think now like the tortoise and the hare as well. Right? Boom. Like, the the hare was a sprinter, but the hare would get distracted, right, or do certain things.

I think there was some, like, moments where they're, like, off like, you know, being a bragger to showboat. Maybe they're they're like

They were like showing off.

Right? Maybe they're like, you know, taking a full rest to pause because they're like, oh, that that tortoise, he's so far behind with the tortoise. It's like, no. I'm just gonna keep at my pace, my own steady pace where I'm not burning myself

out,

but I'm consistently moving forward. Right? And the hair was the the spikes. Right? Spike fast, come down.

Spike fast, come down. Spike fast, come down. Spike fast, come down. And then lost track of time and ultimately got eclipsed by the the tortoise. And so, I think there's a couple things here.

And I think it might be it might be based off of, like, a little bit of, like, just personality and personal preference. Right? Like, you know, for me, my challenge is to, you know, go hard, go fast but give myself rest and breaks when I need. There's also an opportunity that instead of going so big so fast, I could also slow down my pace and stretch out the time frame. Right?

So both of those are options for me and figuring out which one is best for me maybe situational might depend on the project or the person or whatever it is, you know, that is, you know, causing me to, like, go at that velocity. Right? Just, you know, you have to, like, consider. And I think that it create it requires an awareness of what it is that I'm working towards and how much capacity energy is in my reserves.

How much capacity and energy is in my reserves or do I have, I think is a huge part of what we're talking about in overwhelm because I think so frequently we will have this idea of, well, my capacity should be close to unlimited. I should be Superman all the time. Right? I can, you know and I think the conscious man is the man who understands, oh, I have an ebbing and flowing capacity depending on a number of factors. Did I sleep?

Did I eat? Did I have a fight with my partner? Like, do I have children? You know, any number of things. And then with that understanding of, like, well, where am I on my on my scale?

Am I at a 100%? Which, I mean, when was the last time you were at a 100%. I mean, right? But, like, or am I at 20%. And then with that, you can start to make really empowered decisions about if I'm at 20% and I still have a, b, and c to do, then I probably can't add d.

And I shouldn't be surprised when in the completion or the doing of c, I'm feeling a variety of things. Discontented, exhausted, edgy, you know. The awareness of those things can help you mitigate them so they don't come out sideways so you don't end up screaming at your kids. I remember as a kid, like, getting screamed at and being like, I don't even like, I don't know. And you look back later and you're like, oh, my my guardian in this moment was at their wit's end, but without tools.

So they were just kind of flaring, you know? And imagine if you're like, hey, everybody. Come into the car. Let's all be a little quiet because, you know, give some context and what that might have done. Yeah.

The awareness of your capacity is a huge thing in men's work and an overwhelm.

Yeah. Absolutely. And, like, when I heard you talking about, like, you know, potentially taking on that that 4th item, that d. Right? Like, I'm I'm that person that I'm like,

I'm that person. Welcome to the Circle.

Welcome to the Circle. I'm that person where Wait up. Sorry. I'm in the Tell

us more about taking on the

I'm gonna take on that d.

Yeah. Take on that d. And when you take on the d

What ends up happening? What

do you do?

I get overwhelmed.

Oh, it's like this d. It's overwhelming me. I get it. I get it. Yeah.

So A

lot of people could relate. Is this where we, like, put in an advertisement? Yeah.

Yeah. So, like, I get to that point of like taking on more more more more more and my overwhelm manifests itself and like the inability to actually now do anything. I get to a point of like I hit a wall with everything. I get so easily distracted. My energy is depleted and I can't figure out where to focus.

I lose focus when I get overwhelmed with too many things, too many options, or too many things in the air at any given time. Yeah. And it has become part of my practice now to, like, can I, like, ground myself if in a situation I have no choice but to like continue on with all the things that I've taken on? An example being I was just visiting my mother. I was helping her out.

She just gotten out of the hospital and I had like 20 things in my brain juggling of like things that I needed to get done, things that I needed to help her out with, like running to the pharmacy, going grocery shopping, meal prepping, like all these things while also trying to like be present for my mother, right? And I I think in a I think in an effort to protect myself emotionally from, like, what I was being there to do, I was taking on more tasks, more micro responsibilities like meal prep. Mhmm. Right? She didn't ask for it.

I just was doing it because I think I was trying to distract myself. And so I was just piling more on my plate. And I remember coming back from the grocery store and just like having these bags of groceries being in her very small kitchen for the first time and like not really knowing the organizational system like all these things and like I got to a place of like complete overwhelm where I all of a sudden my brain was trying to go in 50 different directions and I couldn't focus on anything.

You talked about this in the circle, didn't you?

And typically. Right? What yeah. And typically what used to happen in moments like that is I would reach for alcohol.

Mhmm.

Or I would go smoke a cigarette or something that I would use to, like, numb myself to calm myself down. And instead of doing that, and I was tempted because my mom had vodka in the fridge. And I was like, I was super tempted to grab that bottle. And some people are like, oh, you probably would have just had a drink. I was like, no.

No. No. I would have had the bottle.

Mhmm.

Right? That bottle would have been go go go go down. And so I, like, in that moment, actually use some of our practices from circle and, like, just, like, felt my feet on the ground, grounded myself, did quick breath practice

Mhmm.

And, like, recentered. I didn't, like stop doing the things that I had signed up to do, but I was able to then do them 1 at a time a little bit more mindfully.

What a beautiful example. I wanna talk a little bit about because you and I have very different experiences of how we deal with overwhelm.

How do you experience that?

Would you agree would you agree with that?

Well, tell me how you're experiencing

it. I'm going to. Well, would you agree with it before I tell you? Okay. Yeah.

We've talked about this. I am the person who when I feel overwhelmed, when I feel anxious, whatever, I completely lose my appetite. I stop eating. I couldn't eat if I wanted to or I can only eat sporadically. And, I have to be mindful about, like, my energy because I also do a ton of fitness.

So, like, am I getting enough, you know, and all that. And there are other people who have the opposite experience. And is it fair to say based on what you've told me that like your experience is different than mine?

Yeah. I mean, it it it depends like so in some moments I am a binger. I'm a person that like if I'm starting to feel overwhelmed I go into like manic panic. And like the only thing that will like help calm me down is a binge. And that used to be alcohol.

Sometimes now it's candy or ice cream. You know, where I like I can't focus. If I can't focus on anything, there is one thing that I can focus on and that's advice.

Like but like food?

Right now, yes. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. So I bring it up because I have to imagine that the experience of overwhelm, which for me has always been, a physiological one. So yes, of course, when anyone's overwhelmed, I have 5 or 6 things to do. I don't have enough time to do them.

There's a mental component to it. But for me, it's always then started in my body and I'm like I start to feel a tightening, a heat, my elevated heart rate, you know, sweating, whatever the things are. And they can manifest in very different ways. And I'm bringing it up because, if I'm trying to figure out if someone in my life is overwhelmed, I have to understand, well, how did they experience overwhelm? Because they may or may not experience it like I do.

And you know, I can't tell you how many times people have said, you know, why aren't you eating? And it's like, well, I I just like, I I I can't right now. And then and then in that moment you're like, well, am I supposed to tell you, oh, I'm, I feel totally alone in this world and no one understands me and I don't belong here. Like or or what, you know, like, what am I supposed to say? And I think the alternative would be and I'd be interested to hear, like, if you're that other person, why are you eating so much?

Like, what's the right answer? You know?

Because like I said, like, if my brain isn't able to focus on anything, if I've got 5 things that I'm trying to do at any given point, my brain has gotten to a point of overwhelm.

Mhmm.

I have too many things to do. So my body says, well, there's one thing you can focus on. And now I'm gonna point you and, like, laser point you, like, super focused. You can't do anything else but this. And that thing for me for a long time was vice.

Right? Whether that was drugs and alcohol or, like, binge eating. And so my question to you is, so, like, how does that manifest? If you've got 5 things in front of you, you're telling me that like it you you're feeling it physiologically but is that like how mentally are you processing it as well?

How am I mentally processing?

So again, my my example is that like I've got 5 things. Yeah. My brain's telling me you can't focus on any of these. Mhmm. So instead you're gonna focus on this one thing.

Oh, right. This one thing is advice.

Oh, right. So yeah. I I it's a different version for me. It's a different version of hyperfocus. But for me it's a hyper focus on what isn't working in a way that's, that kind of shuts me down.

So it doesn't take me to, well, eat that donut and you'll feel better. Usually it takes me to, I think for me it's taken me to this place of, well, you can't change it. So what can you do? And I and so this is when we like, so we come back to men's work and I think this is why so many spiritual and personal growth systems, talk about the value of a daily practice. So now you and I, I don't know if we've talked about it on the podcast yet or not, we've started the morning pages, right?

We do 3 pages of stream of consciousness writing. Then I write out my 10 affirmations or 10 things I'm grateful for, 3 people I want to send love and compassion to. I do it like another thing. I know you have other, you know, we do this stuff. I also have like my physical practice and, and I rely on those things so that when I am confronted with the intensity of what could be overwhelm, I have greater capacity.

So I think the idea being that if I wake up and I'm full, I'm a cup and I'm full, then if that day wants to pour any more into my cup, I'm overflowing. And I think spiritual practice, personal growth practice does 2 things. It, a, empties some of the overwhelm you might already be holding and it, b, expands your capacity It makes your cup bigger. You there's a spiritual teaching about like expanding your vessel. It's very kabbalah, kabbalah, kabbalah.

It's however you pronounce it, Expanding your vessel. How like, how how much more can you expand? So how much light can you hold? Right? And I think that's what our our daily practice does for us so that, okay, well, I have greater capacity.

It is like a preemptive or preventative measure to overwhelm. Because the times that I've been overwhelmed, and I'd love to hear your thoughts on this, like I've almost never been able to plan them. I mean, obviously, there are some days where you're like, oh.

I could see it coming from a mile away.

Well, because you're like you're like, today, I have, like, 8 things I need to do because I'm in a program. Right? I'm like I'm I'm like finishing a thing or there's like this project and, like, you've had, like, the warnings. But sometimes you're like, I woke up to do, like, my regular thing and then a 100 things happened that I did not expect. That I think is the overwhelm that messes with people because you're like, oh, I went to the gas station thinking I was gonna get a soda and and gas.

And instead I got a mouthful from some person who I bumped into accidentally when they were getting their coffee. What do you do with that? And then you add that on to like, then I got to the I got to work and my colleague was upset because I had left. I'm not I mean, I'm at you know, it's just like and it's sort of like buying lunch, you've had 4 things and you're like, I don't know what to do. And then you're like, now I'm eating the donut or I'm not eating the donut.

And if we think about the cup analogy of the vessel, right? So I think there are ways in which we can, like, expand our vessel. We talk about our our daily practices. Those are ways that expand our capacity to hold. Then there is, like releasing some of the the volume inside of our container, our vessel.

Right? Doing that through releasing of things whether that is through, you know, journaling or just like some sort of surrender. Right? And you're just like, okay, like, I'm

just moving, moving, screaming. Yeah. Breathing.

Getting it out.

Like expressing. Yeah.

A, then I think too, like, when there are those unexpected things that could end up filling your vessel to the point of overflow. There's also acceptance. Acceptance has a secret weapon that can, be a filter or some sort of blockage to how much then comes in to your container. Right? Like, maybe it's like a nozzle.

Right? Acceptance could be like a nozzle like if it's a if if that, running into that person at the gas station is this big like drop that's about to come in or this stream that's about to come into your vessel. Like, acceptance can kind of be a nozzle that kind of like reduces how much comes in. Mhmm. Right?

Be like, I'm just accepting, like, I didn't expect this to happen, but I accept that it happened and we're moving on.

Well, how many times in your life have you had the experience? I've done this. Where you walk into a situation with tools and you tell someone feeling really overwhelmed. I mean, you and I actually had this earlier today, right? We were going to meet and then a bunch of stuff happened and now I'm like, now I feel really overwhelmed.

I had two choices. I could either acknowledge what I was feeling and then we could, like, talk about it, which we did. Thank you, by the way. You're welcome. Or I could have pretended and then tried to go through a series of interactions and and behaviors and whatever, kind of carrying this weight and not really being there fully for either of us.

And so the practice has, like, led me to telling you, but it required me to be able to be a little embarrassed. I'm like, oh, I just these three things happened and now I feel overwhelmed and I had to like sit with, is there going to be a judgment about that? Now luckily I'm talking to you and there wasn't one and thank you for that. But, like, that's why we do this work because the truth is most of us would have been overwhelmed. Yeah.

And, like, the three things could be different. Right? Like, depending on who you are and where you are. So maybe it has something to do with things that aren't in my sphere at all. But if they matter to you, which is really the criteria, like it doesn't matter if it's we're talking about men's work or we're talking about whatever minutiae of your job?

You're an engineer. You're a mechanic. You're a pilot. Whatever you are. You know?

You've got things that you probably care about and then if they don't go well, you probably have a feeling about that. Can we create the space where we can be like, well, I don't know your pilot stress, but I can relate to stress. Mhmm. So can we join on that? And the I think the answer is yes if we have enough awareness.

Right?

And you said it too. It's like it's situational too. It's daily that it it just depends on how like it's the perfect storm of things. Right? Like someday you may not have slept well.

And so something that wouldn't have bothered you on another day can all of a sudden fill your vessel up to overflow super quickly. Yeah. Right? Because you you just just because?

I I didn't I didn't know.

Right? There's no valueless. There's no judgment to the things that can fill you up, but the awareness that you are getting filled up to that brink of pour over is important.

And some days are bubbles intact and some days it isn't. Yeah.

And I think today what you demonstrated too by being able to like express your overwhelm is the power of sharing it with somebody and the power of community as a tool. You know, we have a lot of tools that we can work on our individualistically of things that we can do in the moment or things that we can do for self care, things that we can do to expand our our own containers but there is that that secret weapon that a lot of men, myself included, are really, against and that is asking for help from others.

But it required trust and so this is if people are listening now, what is the value of men's work or one of the values of men's work is the creation of community with men you trust so that you can have that experience. If I didn't trust you, I never would have told you. I would have, I would have immediately gone back into my old ways of being, in service to my own survival and there would have been, you know, a ripple effect. Maybe I would have talked later to people in my life differently and, you know, whatever it might have been. So can we can we start to create relationships of trust so that I can bring overwhelm to you because I've seen you be willing to bring overwhelm to me?

This is like when we're in men's work and in men's retreats, and you're like, I can I can observe, I can see, I can hear, I can witness another man having his experience? It not only will it inspire, it gives permission. I mean, like, oh, I'm not so alone and I felt that too. So now maybe I can show you that. And then when we all show each other, you're like, okay.

Well, now it can exist as part of our experience that includes the moments when we feel really proficient and sexy and fun and, like, lighthearted and relaxed and, you know, all that other stuff that we wanna be. You're like, well, sometimes those people are stressed or tired or overwhelmed or, you know, lonely. And you're like, oh, okay.

I'm not so alone in this. And, like, when Yeah. I recognize that I'm not so alone in my struggles, I can create powerful connections with people that allow me like, it builds that trust. Right? And now I have a powerful connection with somebody that allows me an outlet to transform what used to be a weakness asking for help into something that creates a powerful connection and a powerful bond in a mutual reciprocated way.

That's like, you know, it's helpful to me and it could be helpful for the other person as well because now they're also realizing they're not alone. They're like, oh, I see you. Yeah. Right? You see me.

Okay. Now I can also So

I wanna go back to something I said earlier, which was that for me, overwhelm is mainly like a a physical physiological, sensational experience. Because when we talk about the value of men's work, part of that is the the real practice of asking ourselves and looking into what is it I'm feeling in any given moment. Because I believe that a lot of people who do not have that practice experience overwhelm and they're it's kinda disconnected. So it's almost as if you're sort of like I'm in a bubble of, storm clouds or or whatever the image might be, but I but I'm like but I I can I can feel it sort of happening around me, but I'm not connected to it? And so I don't really know what to do with it.

And then I try to intellectualize it, which isn't really gonna help. And so the the practices of men's work, breath, movement, you know, posture, sound, visualization, attention, etcetera, etcetera, help us so that, oh, now I can start to feel in my own body. Oh, I feel that tension. And I don't I don't want, you know, because everyone feels it differently. I I often get it in my in my in my gut and I personally get it in my gut and in my midline, sometimes in my throat, and then heat in my face.

But when I feel these things, I'm like, oh, something's up. And it it becomes like a, like a, a flag, like a, a signal. Tim, start to pay attention because you are moving in this direction. And what an unbelievably valuable tool that is because it gives me a heads up of like, oh, instead of finding myself in the depth of overwhelm, I can see myself heading there and I can start to take some action so that I don't get in over my head.

I think that the awareness of it, right, is like the the core root of of men's work and, like, building on that daily, right, through all sorts of different practices, formal and informal, just like starting to really listen to ourselves and understanding what's arising. What are the warning signs so that we don't get to that point of my my cup is now overflowing and like I'm now in a full reactionary state.

And Yeah. So I, you know, I've had the experience as a facilitator of asking men, like, how they're feeling, and sometimes it is so far away that they don't know what to do. And so I've heard people be like, I feel fine. Like, I'm like, well, how does your body feel? I feel fine.

So if you are a person listening right now and you like that experience is far away from you, then I would recommend this gentle practice, which would be when you're able, definitely not if you're driving, when you are able, sit down, stand if it's comfortable, lay down, but start to scan through your body and notice how you're feeling. And I would say begin by doing a gentle scan in whatever way you would. But when you are complete with that scan, start to ask yourself about how you feel in places you don't often think about. So if you're listening now, I imagine you're not asking yourself how you feel behind your ears or on the back of your neck, unless your neck hurts. You're probably not asking yourself, like, what the, what the back, like the tips of my elbows feel like or my Achilles tendons or the arch of my foot that isn't touching the ground.

And if you start to draw your awareness, and it won't happen immediately, but if you start to draw your awareness there, you'll notice that actually there is sensation everywhere. So you and I are in these chairs right now. Like, if I asked you to, like, think about the crease between your arms and your back and the back of your shoulder and feel what's happening there through practice, it may be hard to find the right word, but do you feel something there? Okay. Yeah.

Yeah. And if I asked you to feel like what's happening, in the back of your calf muscle right now, do you feel something there?

I do.

Yeah. So when we start to develop that skill, then typically with things like overwhelm, we're gonna feel it in our core. We're gonna feel it in our heart. We're gonna feel it in our gut. We're gonna feel it in our pelvis sometimes.

Like, we're gonna feel it in our jaw or in our shoulders. Like these places where we typically feel tension. So it can be different for everyone. But you're like, oh, I'm starting to clench my jaw again and I have a tendency of TMJ. Well, that that might not just be like a physiological issue that you need to talk to your doctor about.

It might be a sign that you're feeling overwhelmed. So A, can you relax your jaw? And then B, can you shine your light of awareness on, well, what's causing me to tighten my jaw or lift my shoulders or, you know, on and on and on.

So as you were asking me to detect what I was feeling, I was able to experience or feel the experience of, like, my clothes, like, on my body.

Mhmm.

Right? So I can feel my jeans on the back of my calves right now. Right? And I'm able to do that because I'm developing, not a great, but developing a vocabulary of sensation. Mhmm.

These are things that I was not taught. I was not taught a vocabulary of, bodily sensations that made it easy or accessible for me to communicate even to myself. Right? Like, let alone to somebody else. What it is I'm feeling in my body?

And so what I've had to do is actually study lists of words and make flashcards and write out lines so that I can start to say, oh, tingling is a sensation. I can start to now use tingling in a sentence. Right? As I describe my body. But before the last couple years, these words were not readily accessible to me because I wasn't taught this vocabulary, and many of us are not.

And now add emotions in there. My rudimentary understanding of emotions is, like, happy, sad, angry. Right? Like, that was Yeah. That was the the extent of, like, how I was able to describe emotions.

And so now I'm, like, studying emotions and I'm saying, okay, like, I can start to expand out and, like, understand there are, several different ways that I can explain the the the emotion that's going on in my body. Right? So that's also encouragement that I would give to folks is, like, if these words aren't readily accessible to you. So if you do that body scan and you're like, I don't fucking know. I don't I'm fine.

Right? Fine might be because you don't have the words to put to the sensation. Mhmm. So you may want to, as I'm doing, study the words. Teach yourself the words as an act of service.

And it can be part of your daily practice. So that's part of my daily practice. And write out some lines. And I say okay I'm gonna go through like right now I'm gonna go through the somatic experience for like anything related to fire or temperature. So it's like hot, cold, cool, warm.

Right? Like, I'm just starting to, like, get an understanding of these different sensations.

Right. So I was just, reminding myself of, the 5 core emotions, which are you mentioned 3 of them. Like so glad, sad, mad, fearful, or scared, and disgust. Right? And, like, but from those, there is a whole wheel of nuance about like what that can be or how the and and then the combinations of those.

Yeah.

And and studying uncomfortable and comfortable emotions. Right? That's kind of like where I start. Right? If I'm experiencing something, is this a comfortable thing or an uncomfortable thing?

If I can start there, then I can expand out or neutral. Is it comfortable? Uncomfortable. Neutral. Okay.

If it's uncomfortable, next layer down.

Why

is it uncomfortable? So my fingers right now, it's a little uncomfortable because they're cold. Now I can ask myself, okay, my fingers are cold without assigning story to it. Oh, I have bad circulation. So like my fingers are cold.

I can just say like, do I have an emotion here? Just like just like sit, chill, like relax. Is anything coming up? No. Neutral.

So then I don't have to attach to it. Mhmm. Right? I'm just like, okay, I do have a little uncomfortable sensation going on, but there's no emotions connected to it. As I can tell right now, it's a neutral experience so I can just continue to accept that that's what's happening.

Maybe I'll take a sip of my tea. Maybe I'll put on some gloves right now so to remedy it that way.

Mhmm. So We should continue this on another episode because then there's all these blends of emotion, which can include bittersweet Mhmm. Which is both comfortable or lovely and uncomfortable simultaneously. So let's but so with the idea of overwhelm, I think any person listening, 1st and foremost, you have to start to ask yourself, inquire how you're feeling as often as you can. So and I said this with my patients when I was an acupuncturist, like, we shouldn't only do our use our tools in the moments when we desperately need them.

We should like look at them when we don't so we start to create a scale, a gamut of like, well, what does it feel like over this range? Right? And you start to think about how am I feeling in any given moment? And then you'll start to clue into when I start to feel overwhelmed, these certain things are my pattern. And I think each of us I I think there are general common patterns.

I think my abdominal digestive pattern is pretty common, but it's mine. And I know other people who are like, I have all this, like, shoulder, neck, you know, stuff or I have all this, like, jaw stuff. I'm like, well, that isn't my journey. I don't I don't have TMJ. That's not how I do it.

But I can relate to, like, if your jaw stuff is the same thing as my digestive stuff, I get it. Does that make sense? You know? So the, so the invitation to look at it in that way, and it will inform everything else you do. So how are you feeling physically is such a powerful tool in all of men's work, but specifically with overwhelm.

Because if you're overwhelmed, I can almost guarantee you you're feeling something. And if you're not feeling something, it's probably because you don't know how to look for it or you don't know how to label it and identify it as you just beautifully said.

Alright. Well, we covered a lot of ground today.

I think we did.

Yeah. We introduced overwhelm. Starting to feel overwhelmed right now because I'm like, wow. I'm like, wow. We actually went through a lot.

And I'm like, okay. Like, how do I how do I wrap this up? So, again, real time processing y'all happening here on the circle. So we talked about the expectations that society puts on men to have all the right answers, to do it by ourselves, to, like, be the best at everything that we do, never asking for help, and how that can ultimately manifest if not put in check into overwhelm and collapse. And and whether that is through isolation or, you know, unhealthy behaviors, like, yes.

Yes.

I hear you. Yeah. So there there's all these ways in which we can fall into overwhelm, and there's all these tools, practices, and support systems in which men's work can support us through this prep this process, this very human process that belongs to all humans, which is the essence of men's work as I've defined it. Men's work is just human work in the context. All humans are capable of being overwhelmed, so we are not alone when we feel overwhelmed.

And then can we start to engage tools and practices to help us manage it so that we don't become a reaction, a trigger, have it come out sideways. I think we covered a lot of it, but luckily, this podcast is new and we are on a journey, and we can revisit it over and over and over deeper and deeper and deeper. Do do you feel complete?

Well, I just wanna say one last thing. Yeah. Please. That, like, I think in this moment, we also got to witness I hope you all got to witness that, like, I was experiencing overwhelm.

I was

like, I have too much going on in my brain right now, and I'm feeling trapped at, like, how do I communicate this? And I was able to pass the baton over to Tim, and he was able to recognize it. And, basically, I asked for silent help.

Mhmm. Where I

was like, can you can you come in? And he was able to, like, come in and help me. And I didn't didn't let my ego take over to be like, damn it. I should've had that. I was like, no.

I need help right now. Yeah. And, like, was able to, like, say, please please help. And he did. And it was very nice.

And now I feel really, really complete.

And I also feel complete. And I adore you.

Adore you too. Alright. Will you take so?

I will. So, with deep appreciation and gratitude for this conversation that we've had for the insights that we may have ex experienced and the connection, the brotherhood, the love, the openness, the vulnerability, the authenticity, but these words are container is open, but not broken. Uh-huh.

Uh-huh.

Thank you so much for joining us here in the circle. If you'd like to stay connected to us between episodes, please follow us on Instagram at queer men's embodiment. Like, subscribe, rate, and review wherever you find podcasts. And as we leave now, I wish you brotherhood, connection, authenticity, vulnerability, safety, and love. And with these words, our container is open but not broken.

Uh-huh.