Authentic Power: Moving Beyond the ‘Strong Man’ Archetype in Men’s Work

Welcome to The Circle, a queer men's conversation about men's work, men's embodiment practice, men's spirituality, and men's personal growth with an emphasis on how queer men can participate, benefit, serve, and lead in these spaces. My name is Timothy Bish.

My name is Eric Baumier. Welcome back to the circle. Today, we're exploring authentic power. How real strength is rooted in integrity, respect, and leading with heart. In a world where power is often associated with intimidation and dominance, we'll unpack what it means to inspire trust and admiration instead of demanding obedience.

Tim, are you ready to go all in? I'm ready. Great. We hear so much in society about strength being tied to control or force. But in men in men's work, we talk about a very different kind of power.

One that's authentic and connected. Can you start by sharing how you define authentic power and how you see it as different from the traditional dominance driven idea of strength?

Authentic power to me recognizes some truths. One truth is that most of my power resides within my choice making in how I choose to react to something that's happening in front of me, how I choose to engage, how I choose to spend my time, exert my effort, choose my words, direct my attention, and the ripple effect that those things can have. I think that we have seen a lot of media or movies that have this image of this strong guy. And oftentimes those images have this sort of external focus where that person can dominate you. He can beat you in a fight.

He can beat you in a financial, war. You know, I, I'm thinking of a scene now from that old TV show Dallas where it was like really exciting, but you're over doing this sort of feud of stock buying, right? So it doesn't have to necessarily be, punching or weapons. It can be but but this idea of, like, my power comes from my ability to exert force over you and control the the circumstances around you into which then I am, like, in charge. But I think men's work teaches that this authentic power really is in how I choose, my choice making and how I choose to engage.

And real power comes from what is it I want to create. So creation is a really important ingredient in my, in my mind of power. So what do I want to create? What kind of life do I want to create? What kind of relationships do I want to create?

What do I want to bring to the world? And then how do I make choices around that? And so, in my estimation, true authentic power rarely has anything to do with dominance and has a lot more to do with harmony and starting with harmony with yourself, harmony with your purpose, harmony with your soul's calling or however you might wanna refer to it.

Yeah. So what I'm hearing is kind of like an evolution. Right? There may have been a time where Braun pure strength was the ruling force of how, not just men, but societies in general ruled. Then we move into brain.

So brain versus Braun. Right? And brain sometimes is now winning. Right? We're, like, I'm smarter than you.

I can make more money than you. Like, all these things where there's a different way of, like, control and, you know, exerting of strength. And now we're introducing a new kind of engagement or a new way to tap into to power, or we might even argue it more like like, inherent way, which is through our hearts and that that harmony that we're finding with ourselves. So we've moved from brawn to brain and moving into to heart energy now.

Yeah. It's interesting that you bring that up because, you know, we talk about in men's work, we will sometimes refer to the archetypes, specifically the 4 primary masculine archetypes of the king, the warrior, the lover, the magician. But in other spaces, I've also referred to like these different energies, head energy, heart energy, gut energy, and then like the lower chakra, like primal energy, sometimes referred to differently. And it isn't that we're moving beyond one to another so much as I think authentic power comes when we have all of these online simultaneously. So if I'm only in my head or if I'm only in my heart or if I'm only in my gut, can I be as powerful as if I'm having all of these things online simultaneously?

And my experience has been when I'm more online, when I'm integrating these energies, however I want to conceive of them, my choice making, my engagement is different in a way that I experience as more powerful. But I and then I feel like I get feedback from the world that they're also experiencing it as more powerful.

Right. In in harmony with ourselves, in harmony with our our architects or our archetypes. Mhmm. And we talked a little bit about I think you mentioned the the strong man archetype. So I'm curious.

Can we unpack that one a little bit more and see where that fits into this narrative?

I mean, you and I were talking about strong man. I don't know if we did it on this podcast. So but this idea of this, this image of a of a man that is doing this sort of traditional sense of strength through dominating power. This, I'm the I'm the cowboy that can come in and, like, shoot them all up. And now we are we are we are seeing this in our society today.

This movement towards I can impress you or gain your trust by speaking in a particular way. And and one of that is encouragement of physical violence, which doesn't usually feel like an authentic power. You know? And I've said in my own personal life, I'm like, oh, if you ever see me in a, in a physical altercation, a lot of other things must have happened prior to that. This is not because you know, I'm a Yogi, so non harming.

Yogis are allowed to fight. They are allowed to defend themselves. But the code of the Yogi would be, when, when I've exhausted all other like options and I'm causing the least amount of harm possible. Sometimes the least amount of harm is pushing someone away from you before they, you know, continue to attack you. So it's this, ability to stand up for yourself if need be, but having that be the last resort.

So if someone is quick to, we should we should punch that person. We should, like, knock that person out. You know? To me, that usually is like, oh, well, then you either don't feel confident or you're unaware of other ways of potentially connecting to that person or to that situation.

I have a a kind of a visual going on right now. There are, like, 4 control knobs in front of me, and I've got my my 4 masculine archetypes. I've got my my king, my warrior, my lover, and my magician. Right? And if they're kind of all at, you know, stasis, right, they're in harmony.

Mhmm. And I can turn them up, you know, given whatever is needed in that situation. So in the example of being a yogi, right, like, your warrior might not be turned up to a 10, but it can be if that's what's needed in that moment. Right? But what happens if we leave that warrior cranked up to 10 all the time and the others are not.

So now we're out of balance. And we might see some some of the shadowy sides of that where you mentioned the strong men as an example. Right? So, we introduced also the the conscious man archetype. So how does that reshape our ideas of leadership and power?

So to me okay. So I wanna go back the like, the warrior can be so if we only think about the warrior archetype as this aggressive figure that is sort of swinging his sword, we're kind of missing it. The warrior can be that person that is standing at at the, you know, the gate, the fence, the the wall, the whatever, guarding without violence. Right? Like creating a clear boundary and, like, defending that boundary through presence and through breath.

So the warrior is, more nuanced than just, I'm gonna fight you if I need to fight you. But the conscious man, I think, is that that person who is working hard to connect with as many aspects of himself as he can. So can I consider what my head is telling me? Can I consider what my heart is telling me? My gut, my primal.

Can I also be aware if I have fear running through me or, other, other things that might be like flowing through me? Can I be aware of those things? And then can I start to make decisions that are congruent with my purpose or mission or in greatest service to the world around me? And I know that can sound like a lot of things to consider simultaneously and this is why we practice. Because if you try it the first time, it's a little bit like, yoga asana.

I was actually teaching a class like a week and a half ago, and I was talking about this pose. And I'm like, okay. Well, think about your feet separating, but your inner thighs drawing in. Think about your pubic bone drawing up. Think about your shoulder blades coming together, but your hands separating, you know, blah blah blah.

I was like, then think about your breath and think about your intention. And I kept, you know, going on and on. And, someone in the class, like a regular student was like, anything else? And everyone and everyone giggled. But I said, I but I I use it as a teaching moment to be like, but this is why we do it.

Because what we're trying to do is expand our capacity to hold, you know, our awareness and our consciousness. So maybe when you first do Warrior 2, you can think of one of those things. I'm going to think about, you know, my my pubic bone drawing up or I'm gonna think about my shoulder blades coming together. I'm gonna think about one thing because I can think about one thing. Well, if you've been doing it for 2 decades or more like I have, then like, well, now I can think about 6 or 7 things.

And it's not so much about the shape, but about like what how many things can I be aware of simultaneously? And the same is true with this. So so the conscious man is gonna put himself in practice. Why do we have sharing circles? Why do we have embodiment practices?

You know, why do we, you know, have inquiry and questioning and journaling and all this so that I can continually expand my capacity so that when I'm in these moments, even if the moment is intense, it's big, can I make a choice that is still congruent with what it is I'm trying to create? So for me, you know, I, as I've already self identified, I'm a Yogi. I would want to avoid at almost all costs any kind of physical altercation. Not because I don't think I can fare well, but because it isn't it isn't in line with my mission. It also doesn't disqualify me for doing it.

I would absolutely, defend myself or my friends and family and my community, with everything I had if I needed to. But I would like, are there other more skillful things that I could do first? And then the answer is the I believe the conscious man would turn to those things.

And what I'm hearing too in that is like the the awareness, the presence, the patience to be in a situation where you then can go through those options and you can make a choice.

So you just brought up something that I'm I'm getting excited now, like patience. It is so there's this concept of, like, reactive behavior. Right? And reactive behavior sort of defined as like sort of taking energy without earning it. Right?

And so let's say I'm in a situation and I get angry. It can be really satisfying initially to just react, To just be like, well, I'm angry back and you you bumped into me, now I'm gonna bump back into you or you called me a name or whatever the thing was. And that can initially feel good, but like the teaching is that, you know, short term pleasure leads to long term discomfort. And the reverse of that is and then short term discomfort often leads to long term pleasure or fulfillment or contentment. So the teaching of restriction, this idea of like I'm gonna pause before I jump into anything.

And that moment of restriction to be like even if I want to yell at you or even if I want to, it can be positive, even if I want to grab that gift that you're offering me, I'm going to pause and try to inject a little bit of consciousness and then in so doing, there is power. Because so many people are just pure reactions. So those reactions can sound loud. They can be, a lot of bravado. They can be big.

They you know, they can look and sound intimidating. But it takes almost no strength to to bring that or to or to show that. It takes a lot of strength to be like in the face of a chaotic moment, can I pause and then make a conscious decision? That is authentic power because then I'm not a reaction. I get I am a I am a choice maker.

And, obviously, choice making is a huge part of creation.

Intentionality, self control, discipline. Right? These are all characteristics of, like, developing and curating passion or patience so that we can be in those moments. And I found a lot of the the men's works practices that we've engaged and have really helped me to to tune into that and really start to, work with that and make it more part of my life. I even think about, like, our our cold plunges in the ocean.

Right? Like

Mhmm.

Like, being in intense environments and intense situations and making a choice in that moment. What's the first thing we do when we get into cold water? We take a breath. I consciously say, okay. I'm taking a breath right now.

I'm making a choice rather than being in that reactive state where I wanna, like, hold my breath and, like, constrict, constrict, constrict.

Mhmm.

You know? And and in doing that practice, I am exercising. I'm doing a rep in self control. I'm doing a rep in discipline, and I'm working my way into a place where I can be more of a response rather than a reaction.

Well, I'm gonna go even deeper because I think what you just said is right. But I think you also alluded to what I just mentioned without saying it which is we run into the water and, and for those of you who are listening, we live in Provincetown so the water is cold now and it's only getting colder. We run into the water but before you take a breath, there is, I would argue, a moment of pause. The moment when our body I'll just speak for myself. The moment when my body, starts to experience the the entirety of the cold around me.

Because I try to get in up to my neck, for a lot of reasons. One is which I have like a shoulder thing and I wanna, like, you know, anti inflammatory. But I try to be up to my neck. So the like, I have that initial moment and rather than doing what I almost always want to do, which is run out of the water, there's even a blink of pause, that blink of restriction. I'm restricting my initial instinct which is to run out of here and then in that moment, it's like I'm going to start to breathe before I let myself be just a reaction.

And then you and I both know we've done this a lot, a lot of cold plunges now. Sometimes we stay longer than others. But I would argue that because of this practice, when we, when we choose to stay 2 minutes versus 5 minutes, it's because we're choosing to based on some, you know, sometimes the water is calmer and easier. Sometimes it's

Choppy or more challenging.

Choppy, more challenging or like potentially dangerous. You know, obviously, for those of you who are listening that, having cold plunged, the the interesting thing is that the water isn't usually the the most challenging aspect of it. It's tell me if you agree. Mhmm. When it's when you get out of the water and if there's, like, the the wind when you get out of the water and you're, like, you feel like freezing and shivering and you're, like, trying to put on like, trying to towel off and put your stuff on?

That's the hardest part.

That's the real practice right

there. The cold plunge

is just the appetizer. Yeah. The main course, the true practice is when you're getting out of the water and trying to get into warm clothes again.

Well, I mean, I I would argue that I would argue that that moment when we, like, take our robes off Mhmm. And we're standing in our bathing suit, like, in February Mhmm. About to run into the ocean, there's, like, a bit of a practice there too. Because there are moments where, like, I everyone else I know is dry and inside. You know?

Like, what am I doing? But I'm like, I'm I'm here to build resilience. I'm here to build authentic power. I'm here to practice the ability of not being an immediate reaction to whatever is happening in front of me. Now this can happen in so many ways that we we have so many ways of doing it.

We can do it through movement. We can do it through breath. So much like martial arts and dance training and sports can offer us these moments because we are often pushed to that place. And then I think the people that we have seen in our lives that are so excellent are the most of whom are good at that pause. They're good at that.

I'm not gonna be immediate reaction. I'm gonna I'm gonna pause. I'm gonna develop the ability to pause so that I can choose.

And the you said this, earlier, the ripple effect. The ripple that that creates in your own life, you know, when you do a practice like that, what, like, when you when you push yourself and you challenge yourself and you're developing this discipline, what effect, what consequences in a positive way does that have on the rest of your life and also on other people? So in, AA, there is a book, called, drop the rock, and then there's a follow on that's like and the ripple effect. And so the ripple effect

Wait. Is it all what book are those 2 books? Drop the rock is one book?

Drop the rock was the first,

volume?

Not volume, edition. Oh, okay. Addition. And then they wrote an an

Another edition.

Another edition.

Oh, got it. Okay.

That has an appendium. Something added onto it. Okay. I understand. Which is now the ripple effect.

Got it.

So, in the ripple effect, it's like, okay, so if I'm going through my life as just a reaction. So if somebody cuts me off in traffic, I flip them the bird. I say, screw you. Right? Like, and that, like, my energy that I've now sent to this person, what effect does that have on them now?

And, you know, if that person is now driving along and they like, you know, were going to a job interview and now they're late or they're frustrated and then they don't get that job. And then, you know, 6 months later, they have to file for bankruptcy. It's like the butterfly effect. Like like things have consequences. Like all of our actions, all of our behaviors, everything has a consequence.

And, you know, we can't control all of it. But if we can put out positivity or put out more heart centered choices into the world, then maybe that effect will be, okay, that person cut me off in traffic, but instead of me flipping them the bird, getting angry at them, causing more, you know, distress, I, like, apologize or I forgive them or whatever it is and I send good energy out. Right? Like, then they might be able to go about their day, get that job, send their kid to college, like all these things, like the good consequences that come from it. Yeah.

Well, I'm gonna I'm gonna pause and and say I hear you and it sounds really lovely And I agree with most of what you're saying, but I'm I'm just like, I'm picking up on some words like, you know, positivity and love. Sometimes in my experience, I am really pissed off at what that person just did Or I'm I'm really bothered that they cut me off or they created a dangerous situation while I was driving. I'm, I might not be having positive emotions and I might not be in a place where I'm ready to just forgive them. And I think that's a moment of authentic power to be like, I'm upset and I'm still choosing to pause and not allow myself to be a reaction. So when I choose to pull on quietly, when I when I choose to, not respond with another negative word.

It doesn't necessarily mean, well, because I've totally forgiven you and I feel loved and I'm like trying to no. Sometimes it could be like I'm really uncomfortable but I understand the the ripple effect, the the impact that my actions or my words might have and I am consciously choosing to do something that is in align with the impact I'm wanting to have, the impact I'm wanting to bring to the world. And that still might feel really, really uncomfortable. It might not feel like love. Mhmm.

That's what I'm

Right. But I'm also hearing, like, you're you're not going to go into a you can have a feeling. Like, this isn't about invalidating a feeling. Yeah. That upset me.

Right? But the reaction that you're going to put out into the world, the ripple that you're gonna put out in the world isn't one of flipping the bird yelling. Right? Because you've you've taken that pause. You've you've taken a moment.

Right. And said like, okay. Like, I may be feeling something valid. Very valid. Yeah.

Right? But the the response is gonna be, like, something different.

The response is gonna be conscious Yes. Even if the emotional landscape is still uncomfortable. Mhmm. I think that is authentic power. I think that is an example of when the conscious man is trying to step into to his power, it is him making a conscious choice in alignment with his purpose and his intention even if he's emotionally uncomfortable.

So the the internal ecosystem, the internal environment could be a little bit more choppy. Could be a really choppy ocean inside. Yeah. And that's not gonna knock you over. It's not going to send you into a tailspin.

I think I think the practice of a conscious man is for it for for that person to try not to let it do that. And I think in inherent in that practice would be moments when we don't succeed or we don't fully succeed. Moments when and this has happened to me where I I notice, I'm like, oh, that that was more intense than I wanted. That was sharper than I wanted. That was, that that wasn't entirely in alignment with, how I wanted to be.

I didn't fully fail but maybe I, like, I partially failed. And then I think in the next step is that then the conscious man, takes responsibility for that. So I'll tell a story because you were part of the story at retreat when you, you and you and Paul, I believe it was, were hanging prayer flags and you asked a question, I gave you a clear answer. You did not understand it. Neither of you did.

I was at that time holding a lot of stuff. So, you know, I was bringing stuff that had nothing to do with these prayer flags. They're just prayer flags. You know, you know, it's decoration in this sacred space. And, and I, and I finally like got really clear about what I was saying and, and it came out very sharp.

And so, you know, I, I said the thing, the message was received, and then you guys turned and continued your work. And I was like, oh, wow. That came out sharper than the than I intended. And there was my teacher was next to me and he turned and he recognized that it was it was really sharp. There was no question that it was sharp.

And he gave me a hug. And then there was so that's the moment where I'm like, okay. So I did not intend. My intention is to help people. My intention is to be of service and to make these men feel supported with the knowledge and expertise that I have.

And my behavior just now was like not fully congruent with that mission. But then I think the conscious man, I came and spoke to you both. I recognized what I had done. I apologized for it. And I I tried to reiterate.

I don't exactly remember my exact words now, but try to reiterate, like, what my intention actually is, which is I want you guys to do a great job and I want the space to look good for the service of all the men coming in. Otherwise, it's like, I don't I don't have a dog in the fight. Right? Like, it's like it's like it's about everyone else that, like, that's why I cared.

And add on top of it time constraints. You know, we had hours to get this very large space together. And there's a lot of orchestration that's happening. There's a lot of moving pieces. There's a lot of

There's a lot of questions being answered.

There's a lot of questions being answered and asked. Right? Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of unknowns.

And for many of us, it was our first time working together. So there's a lot of dynamics at play. Yeah. One that I also want to introduce here is there's a power dynamic in play that, like, for us, right, like, you're the lead assistant. There there is a leadership gap between us.

And so with that, it's like, by you, like, speaking a decision in a direction, it's like, in that moment, I was like, okay. Right? Like, listening, gonna do it. Right? Like, I was able to, like, just drop it.

Whatever it was, I was, like, trying to understand. I was like, okay. Like, now is not the time. I don't have to, like, fully understand this. I just have to follow the direction.

Right? I've got a person in leadership who has a clear direction, and now I'm going to follow it. But it didn't do it from a place of fear. It didn't do it from a place of, like, fearing the consequence of it. I did it from a place of, like, like, okay.

Something has to be done. And I know that this is coming from like a good hearted, good natured person. And so I wanna talk about healthy power dynamics and how they differ from control driven relationships. And how can men create trust and mutual respect through their their practices?

I mean, I think an understanding of people's intention is a really big piece because if you know that I'm trying to create a space that that is good for everyone in whatever group we're in or whatever the situation is, and then you, you observe me being edgy a little bit, that is, that will feel and it will land differently than if it felt like I was doing something that was very self serving. I'm trying to get things done in a way because I need something. And it's about me, me, me, me, me. I think there's a, like a, a flavor to shared intention around what it is we're doing. And I think an idea when there's a power dynamic that you were referring to, this idea of I, you know, in the example you just gave, like, I am in charge on some level.

I was I was in charge. I was like the number 2 guy. Right? But, like, the number one guy when it came to, like, most of the logistics because the number one guy is off doing his own thing. Right?

So it's like I'm going to give you you know, we might even think of it at moments, I'm going to give people orders. I'm going to tell you I need this done or I need this done or I need this done. But it comes from a place of service, not of servitude. It comes from a place of, creation and wanting to bring to life something that is good for all of us and not not something that is just going to work for me or benefit me. So I think I think that is a big part of it because when when I am helping people in that example, it's because I wanna see them succeed.

And I want them to learn the things I had to learn and that I was fortunate enough to have someone like whispering in my ear too. So a lot of it is I I'm I'm telling you what to do or I'm suggesting that you do these things not because I want compliance, it's because I want your like your fullness. I want your learning. I want your, your, I want you to walk away from this and feel like you've gained something that you can bring into your life.

There's, there's something around like following as an act of trust. Right? Like, I'm not following you. I'm not submitting to your your your very whim because you're, like, dominating me. I'm following you because I'm inspired.

Right? I'm inspired by the leadership that I am witnessing that I'm experiencing that I'm like, okay. Like, yeah, this may be a very direct, like, not even ask at that point. It was a do it this way. Right?

But that isn't me submitting. That is me following. That's me following because I'm inspired.

And you probably trusted on some level Yes. That that the information you had just been given was for the greater good.

Right. And I think we contrast though that with the the strong man archetype who is leading with dominance and and leading from a place of, like, trying to create that fear of consequence.

Well, so I think I think with the the strong man versus, you know, what we're calling the conscious man, I think the strong man very often has a a lack of self worth, a lack of sense of their own strength. I mean, I actually would argue that I think that that person, is almost entirely disconnected from their personal strength. And so they're putting on this show of I'm gonna do what what feels like strength or what what I think you might think of as strength because I'm not really connected to mine. You know, I I've seen if we think about politics, I've seen people who are who are like blustery and other people who are I believe that I can convince people to vote in favor of this bill or this, you know, piece of whatever purely because I believe the the strength of the logic behind it or like, you know, like there's and and to me that's real strength. Like, I believe this idea is so good that it's gonna be hard for people to not as opposed to I actually am not sure how good this idea is.

So now I have to put on a a show to kind of convince or intimidate people into doing what I want. So there there is something really it's like a confidence. I believe that what we are doing is of such value that I'm not gonna have to force people or coerce people into, like, listening or joining or or participating. They're gonna want to because

And they're inspired.

They're inspired. Yeah. Back to inspiration. Right. Yeah.

Beautifully said.

So we mentioned something one of the first episodes of the podcast around, like, men nurturing. And we had a a conversation around, like, you know, sometimes when, I think the the example was, like, the father not, like, wanting to, like

Be the shushing mother.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Or, like, you know, like, be there for the kids or, like, like, something. Something.

Anyway, the the moral of that's that that conversation was that, like, it's not that the father is consciously all the time, not always, consciously choosing not to do that. Sometimes it's just subconscious programming. Right? It's a little shadowy. And so that's what I'm also hearing though too or I think that is possible with the strong man.

It could be shadowy behavior where somebody's maybe not be aware that that is what they're doing. And so I think too that we have to also give a little bit of grace. I think there are some people that are very aware of the manipulation that they are doing in this world. But I also think that some of it is like they're just not aware. So I think of myself in the corporate environment now in my my, trajectory in leadership, I think of my initial time of being a manager.

It's a little bit of a micromanager, and I didn't realize it. I didn't realize what I was doing. I wasn't actively consciously doing it. I was just having a little bit of hard. I was having a hard time giving up control.

And so in thus doing, I was controlling my designers. Literally come up from behind them sometimes because I wasn't able to communicate. I wasn't able to pause, stop, and reflect on, like, how I was giving my direction. I would literally just, like, come up and, like, take their mouse And like backseat art direct, and then I would like get them out of the driver's seat and they go click click click click there. Right?

Because I didn't have the tools or the awareness of what I was doing. And it was through like a couple years of like manager training and a couple years of just like being on the job that I became aware of that. And I was able to bring more consciousness to my management, to my leadership. And now instead of being that micromanager, I am a leader who inspires. I don't many times, I've argue like probably 95 plus percent of the time.

I do not tell my employees what to do. I really, like, I'm there to facilitate. I'm there to help remove roadblocks for them, but I'm really there to, like, elevate them and and let them be empowered.

So what I'm hearing you say is this idea of, like, giving people grace and I think that's absolutely right because I think that for any number of reasons, true authentic power hasn't been modeled a lot. I would argue and and maybe we can think of some examples, but I don't think it makes as interesting a movie, you know. But also it's like if you've never seen something modeled then it's probably gonna take a lot more work to try to figure out and implement something into your life. Right? So so, yes, this is I think why we get to this idea of why are men's workspaces important.

They're important because they can allow us the opportunity to practice some of these things to start to understand, our limits and what we're capable of and our and our tendencies and our habits. And the sharing circle as an example is a moment of when a man shares and then they get reflections, they'll get a real insight into, well, what did you actually say? What did ever what did the men in this circle hear? Because it may not be the same thing you thought you were saying and there's power there. If you could start to bring that awareness in, oh, I thought I was communicating this, But the reflection that is I received what they all heard was something else.

I'm probably I'm not probably. I'm certainly doing that in other aspects of my life. So if I'm meeting my spouse or my kids or my boss or my colleagues, it is possible that they're not fully understanding me either and then the conscious man can start to make some choices about that and there are there are challenges. So I wanna I wanna share a story if you're open.

Yes, please.

The last two nights of the men's embodiment circle and the men's sharing circle in Provincetown, Massachusetts, a thing that I birthed a little over 2 years ago, I, for the first time, had a guest facilitator. Eric, do you know who that was?

It was me, everyone.

He's raising his hand if you can. Yes. And I had I had a practice of my own. Right? I had a practice of of releasing and being, like, you know, not not being too attached to this being mine.

It was a practice that I could feel a part of me that wanted to claim it still. Right? That's old thinking. So when we think about authentic power, it isn't like a light switch. I'm like, oh, I choose to only have authentic power.

It's like, no, this it's a choice we have to make over and over and over again. Oh, I can feel that part of me that wants that my ego wants people to remember that I started this. I want like, uh-oh. What if they like him more than me? Right?

What if what if he does something better than I do? Like, what if he thinks it's something I haven't thought of? You know, that's all that old stuff. And then I was like I was like I had to settle into the trust that, I was still a part of what was of what was occurring And that there was a beauty in the expansion and there is a beauty in the expansion of our community and the fact that now we have 2 facilitators instead of 1. But that's part of the practice.

The part of the practice was can I step out of leadership in that moment and then wrestle with my own ego without without disturbing the space? And as opposed to I'm gonna I'm gonna flare up. I'm gonna walk around and make sure everyone knows that I was the original. I'm gonna whatever the however it might look, I'm not gonna show. I'm not gonna come at all.

I'm just, you know, I'm gonna and it was like, no. But but that was a practice. There were moments when I felt a little uncomfortable because I'm like, oh, I'm relinquishing. But but it was a powerful choice, I would argue.

Mhmm. Yeah. It's like me backseat art directing. Right? As a creative director.

Right? They really have to, like, you have to allow. Right? Like, that's that was the practice that I did. And I was hearing what I'm hearing you say is you had to allow, like, it to happen.

But also, like, when we talk about authentic power, incongruence with my mission and my intention and my purpose and my purpose and my mission and my intention were to create a a safe healing space, in Provincetown for men to do their work, for all queer men to do their work, for all men to do their work, actually, all men to do their work in this space. And bringing you in as another facilitator is in service to that mission. And that is why I had to do the work of Tim's ego. You have to step aside for a second. You and and also what an opportunity.

So I'm like, oh, I can see you flaring. And it didn't flare a lot. Like, I it was a mild flare. But I'm like, I see you. I see you over there.

But it was like I think the reason I would argue that I made choices from authentic power was because it was congruent with like, but what is it I really am trying to do? And what I'm trying to do is serve a community through health and wellness. And and that choice and having you lead and having you continue to lead what you're going to do, is absolutely in service to that. And so I feel great about it. Mhmm.

But I wanna like, when we're on this journey, there are gonna be moments when, well, it was a little tricky or a little uncomfortable. I didn't, you know, I've I what is it? Bristled? What's the word? I

Yeah. You had a little bristly.

Yeah. I got I bristled a little bit. Yeah. Well, that's part of it. The conscious man can bristle without crumbling.

Mhmm. And,

The conscious man can bristle without crumbling.

New swag.

Yeah. Let's put it on a t shirt. No. But I I mean, I think that's a a really big deal. Good.

Like, I can have this uncomfortable feeling, but it it's not gonna make me crumble.

I can be the oak in the middle of a windstorm.

You might be the oak in a windstorm.

I can be a grounded cold plunger in a raging ocean.

I can be a palm tree in a, hurricane. Yeah. Let's keep going.

I think I'm tapped out.

Okay. Okay. Yeah. I'm gonna keep saying more when

I think of that. To y'all, I'm not an improper. So, like, the fact that I had, like, two examples is, like, pushing me to that edge. And I'm recognizing my edge. It's like, okay, well, now I'm in performance mode

and I'm

starting to get uncomfortable.

So are you are you bristling but making conscious choices?

I'm bristling but making conscious choices. And I will also say too that, like, you know, on the receiving end of, like, bristling leadership. Right? Like, even if a conscious choice is being made. Right?

Like, I, as a follower, like an or a an employee. Right? I'm, like, thinking in a couple different ways right now, like, like, if, like, I met with something, like, I also can bristle, right? And I can also react or I can also make that part of my practice to be like, okay, like, like, we're both bristling right now, but can we be with each other in a moment and work through it together?

Right. Because these these concepts are not dependent on hierarchy. Like, we we are talking about that because that has been part of some of the examples. But, the application of our consciousness is the sort of individual work that we're doing all the time. So if you are the employee receiving a task from your boss and you start to bristle, well, they might be bristling too, but really the work is like, okay.

Well, I recognize I'm bristling, but what is what, like, what is my intention? What are what are what is my purpose?

It means that we can be met with somebody that maybe in their, strong person archetype or somebody in their conscious person archetype. And, like, that's irrelevant. Right? Like, doesn't matter if somebody is bristling and then making conscious choices or bristling and making unconscious choices. Like, I still am in control of my reaction, right, and my response.

So, like, they can bristle and be unconscious, and then I can bristle and I can be conscious, and it doesn't matter about the power dynamic.

Well, that's really that's really where like, the example where we see the power. When someone is in full reaction, can the conscious person still keep their groundedness, their presence, and choose from that place? And and and that can be the place where things start to shift, right? To be like, you know, how many times, oh, one person says this and like, I'm yelling at you and now you're yelling at them. Now they're yelling.

And it takes one person to be like, you just yelled at me. I'm gonna respond in this way and then step away and that can stop that cycle.

Right. Think about go back to the ripple effect like that bristle with an unconscious reaction can be a really big rock in a very still pond. And as that ripple is going through that water, like, how are you gonna show up? Are you gonna show up as like a a levy that breaks the ripple that prevents it from going further? Or are you also going to add to that?

Are you gonna drop your own rock and, like, make it an even bigger reaction? Right? And then that chain reaction you talked about, that person yelled at me. Now, I'm gonna yell at that person. So if you think of, like, a corporate hierarchy, like, if the CEO is yelling at the the the vice president and the vice president's taken to the director and the director's taking it to the manager and the manager's taken to the individual contributor, you've created this entire toxic, like chain reaction of just, like, yelling and non respect that, like, but you can be at any layer in that and you can be a block.

You can be a dam and you can say like I'm not gonna allow for this ripple to go any further.

I'm thinking about the, breakwater in the harbor. Mhmm. Right? And so, you know, we we live in Provincetown. We're at the very tip of Cape Cod Peninsula, and we have a harbor.

And there's this, like, big stone breakwater that is meant to protect, the boats in a certain portion of town. And, you know, it's big and heavy, made of rocks and, like, design you know? And you can absolutely we actually when we were kayaking, you can feel there's, like, a line. We're like, what part of this is protected by that and what part isn't? And when you and I were kayaking, it changed not undramatically when we got beyond its protection.

Right. And we even see the dramatic consequences on the shoreline because, like, that that line, when we go to the flooding that happened 2 winters ago, the the King Moon tide that that came in shortly after Christmas that, like, wreaked a lot of havoc in one part of the town, it was a clear line where that happened. Yeah. Oh, yeah. It was everything on the other side of that wall.

Right. So that is a great, image for this idea of if you can maintain your presence, your groundedness, and remember your purpose, your, your intention, your mission, what can, what can you shield from continuing on? So it isn't as if the water behind you doesn't ripple some, but it almost certainly won't ripple in the same way it was rippling because you've had this impact on it. And so that to me is a great example of authentic power. Like the breakwater as this steady grounded force prevents massive damage.

Goes back to the the warrior doesn't have to be the person that is like like out in the battlefield. They could be the the the guardian. They could be the protector.

They could be the person standing at the wall saying, if you proceed, here are the consequences. And that warrior might be saying, I have a whole army on this other side of the wall. So best for you not, you know, but it does he doesn't have to be swinging his sword. He might just be like, I'm gonna let you know what what is what right now.

Right. And I'm gonna also let you know that I will be consciously making a choice. Right? I'm gonna be that breakwater.

Right. I'm gonna give you the opportunity and then, I might choose to open the gate and let my army come out. So the thing about the warrior is that, you know, we we have this image of, like, this sort of person who's, like, fighting, but it's often with purpose. It's often for the greater good. And there's so many stories that kind of like echo this idea, but it's not usually about that person being the hero, in that moment.

It's that person like following their heart. And then we will write a movie or a book, you know, about it where then because they've done that, they are the hero. But the truth is it's like they're, they're not, they're not doing it because they think there's a camera crew. They're doing it because they think it's the right thing to do.

Yeah. I'm I'm excited. We're gonna go into the archetypes and we'll break them down individually per

episode. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I'm I'm very excited to to to go into this. We're gonna pin that one for now. Yeah.

I do wanna bring in the queer experience. Yes. So classic leadership and masculinity and classic masculine stereotypes are, like, pretty enmeshed right now. Right? We think of, like, like, the values that we've we value in leadership and also those are sometimes, connected to what we value in masculinity.

Right? At least, you know, in America, kind of the societal norms that we're surrounded in right now. And so my curiosity is around how do queer men bring in a unique, you know, experience and in a unique lens to help us, you know, kind of unpack that a little bit more.

Well, I think the answer to me would be the queer men have to try to show up as authentically as they can. Inherent in that question to me feels like this idea and I think it may not be totally untrue but, like, that a lot of queer men tend to be, like, very creative and, you know, but but I'm thinking now about the queer men who can blend in. Right? Like that the the queer football player. Right?

He can he can just show up as authentically as he can and be like, well, I'm here's an example of a queer football player that that is good at whatever position. I am not super versed in football, so I'm gonna stop there with that analogy. But, like, it's like being the fullness that he can be. I think that would be true, like queer people being their fullest in whatever way they can. And then having said that, my own personal experience is that a lot of the queer people that I know and have known are unbelievably creative.

They have vision and they, you know, and a lot of people that I've known because I was a professional dancer are artists and and, you know, artistic creators. And it's like, well, so bringing all of that and, like, demonstrating other ways of looking at things, new perspectives can be so powerful. But to answer your question, I think ultimately whatever kind of queer person you are, be the fullest version of that. And so if it if it's if it if it looks like, like the the CEO businessman person, if that's what it looks like, great. Then then be that as your full authentic queer self and then let people see that.

Let people recognize, oh, leadership isn't a thing that belongs to straight men. It's a thing that belongs to leaders. Queer men, powerful women, like like it leadership is a thing that belongs to leaders, not to a particular kind of person, except if a leader is a kind of person and then it belong so you does that make sense?

Authentic power comes from authenticity.

Yeah. So it like, whatever you are, be that.

Mhmm. And whatever moment that is, whatever era you're in, right, like, be that bring 100% of yourself, your fullness to the best of your abilities, and you will see how that has a ripple effect, how that will inspire others around you. And for me, that is leadership. Leadership is about inspiring others. It's not about control.

It's not about dominance. It's about inspiration and and doing things from places of of, like, I don't I don't know if I wanna say devotion. Mhmm. Right? But, like, you know, I I'm if I'm following that leader, I'm doing it from a devotional place.

I'm not doing it from a fear based place.

So the image that's coming into my mind right now is the scene from Braveheart. Mhmm. You know, before the big battle and, you know, he gets up on the horse and and he's going back and forth sort of screaming this speech, but the speech is all in that moment. It's all about, this grand idea bigger than him. Right?

It was about, it was about freedom for their land and like the ability for them to be their own people. And to me, that's a a beautiful example of like, well, this it wasn't about follow me because I'm right. Follow me because I'm the the the superhero here. Follow me because I you know, it was like, no. We're all doing this and here's why.

And I think so it's an example, you know, whether or not we like Mel Gibson or his movies. Like, this idea of like, I'm I'm encouraging you or inspiring you because this because of this idea that we all that we all love or agree,

you know. And that's is the the quote that he says like they may take our land but they'll never take our freedom.

They may take our lives Yeah. But they'll never take I wish I had a Scottish accent right now. I actually dated somebody who, quote like tried to do that in the accent but got it, like, super wrong. Mhmm. And it sounded like a very different accent, and I was like, this is

Right. But you know what? I'm also inspired by that because at least he was bringing his authenticity. He was trying.

Well, listen. Yeah. Like, way better that he tried and then we had, like, a hearty laugh about it.

Rather than being inauthentic and be like, no. That was a great Scottish accent. I don't know what you're talking about.

Yeah. By the way, people who can do a lot of accents, I think it's like a really impressive skill. Mhmm. I I you know, it's like, who's the guy Seth MacFarlane? The guy who does, Family Guy who can do, like, all the different voices?

I'm like

Like Robin Williams. Like, one of the all time greats.

Yeah. Like, that's an impressive skill set. But yes. So you may take our lives, but you won't take our freedom because because they weren't they weren't fighting to dominate. They were fighting for their own freedom.

And so when when I fight in my life for equality, love, compassion, emotional, literacy and deep connection, I feel I feel like I care about those things because of they matter. It's not about how like, think of me this way or think of me that way. It's no. It's like I believe that these things are of value to the world I live in, and that's why I wanna bring them.

Absolutely. Authentic power invites us to inspire others through our courage, our vulnerability, our heart centered strength. And I think real respect is earned through how you lead live and how you lead and how you love. And I think there's just there's so such beauty in, like, when you witness that and are inspired by that, and then you can be that into the world as well. Mhmm.

I really hope that we can so to inspire others to, like, take a look at authentic power Mhmm. And their relationship with their own power.

Mhmm. Yeah. Beautifully said.

I have a closing thought

Okay.

That I wrote earlier. Authentic power doesn't demand, it inspires. It doesn't intimidate, it leads with love and integrity. This is the strength the world needs now more than ever. And we invite you to step into this work and lead with the kind of power that builds trust and admiration.

Beautiful. Thank you. So Well, with that, I feel complete. Do you feel complete?

I feel very complete as well. You should take us out.

Yeah. Let's take a deep inhale and a gentle exhale. And with deep appreciation and gratitude for the fullness of our hearts, for our awareness, for our community, and for our deep desire for authentic engagement and living, that we step away from the sacred space. And with these words, our container is open, but not broken. Uh-huh.

Thank you so much for joining us here in the circle. If you'd like to stay connected to us between episodes, please follow us on Instagram at queer men's embodiment. Like, subscribe, rate, and review wherever you find podcasts. And as we leave now, I wish you brotherhood, connection, authenticity, vulnerability, safety, and love. And with these words, our container is open but not broken.

Uh-huh.