Detoxing Limiting Beliefs and the Narrative of Unworthiness and Shame

Welcome to The Circle, a queer men's conversation about men's work, men's embodiment practice, men's spirituality, and men's personal growth with an emphasis on how queer men can participate, benefit, serve, and lead in these spaces. My name is Timothy Bish.

My name is Eric Bomyea. Welcome back to The Circle, the podcast for queer men's embodiment. In this episode, we explore the concept of detoxifying harmful narratives and limiting beliefs to create space for what we truly desire. We'll discuss how to confront these beliefs, release them, and open ourselves to love, acceptance, and self worth. Tim, are you ready to go all in?

I hope so.

So last night's embodiment circle, we focused on what we need to detox in order to allow what we want to come in. And, some conversation bubbled up to the surface around limiting beliefs and harmful narratives. So I'm wondering which one stood out to you as recurring themes from the men that shared.

Last night's circle was an interesting one because the conversation actually started before the circle did. So every week, I do an Instagram post. I've already created the circle and the circle was about, energetic detoxification, which is another way of saying using the practices to release anything that might be stuck, whether we're aware of it or not, and then moving from that place. But before the circle began and that we were setting up, I started speaking to a man who was clearly a regular, in the circle who was clearly upset. And so I said something like, are you okay?

Or how are you? And he was like, I'm fine. And I paused and I'm like, you know, are you? And so we started having this conversation and it had to do with dealing with grief and sadness and a despondency around whether we would ever feel like we belonged or we were loved or we could trust that we could be loved. But obviously, at the beginning of the circle where we're setting up, there's a limited time.

So we had a brief conversation about that, but a few of the men were hearing it or listening to it or a part of it. And then so it should be no surprise that it came up at the end of circle. And the major question for me, I think, I think I spoke to it, but you can remind me, was this idea of, are moments of grief, breakup, abandonment more challenging for a queer person because of the messaging we've received. Now, I want to be clear that breakups can be hard for all people. I'm not, and there's no value in it's harder for us.

Like that isn't the point I'm making, but rather this idea that while we were, and I'll speak for a man of my generation taught the lesson or message that and it was interesting because I was thinking about this before when like, the messaging I never received that I received never used the word queer. Queer at the time that I heard these messages was only ever an insult. So the messaging came from gay, gay, gay, gay. And the message was like gay, if you're gay, you're never gonna find love. You're never gonna be happy.

You're never gonna have fulfillment. It's always gonna be a dark shadowy experience. And so my image of that life was in the shadows in alleyways under bridges, like in secret places doing dirty sinful things. And so the question came up, well, I wonder then when a person who has heard that story glimpses, experiences, tastes or or enjoys a moment when they feel connected, loved, held, valued, whatever the words might be, and then they lose it, is it more intense? And my own experience has been every time I've had that, there's always a really intense dread where I'm never going to feel that ever again.

And that comes at a cost, you know? And luckily for me, I then I have experienced it again. So, I'm learning slowly but surely that isn't that isn't a truth. But then I thought about, oh, well, if I were to ask one of my straight friends what their experience was, they would still obviously tell me that breakups are hard, that abandonment is hard. Obviously, any kind of trauma for doesn't matter who you are.

Trauma or traumatic events are challenging and hard. But if you have an underlying belief that you weren't really ever worthy of it to begin with, then does it become more challenging? If your underlying belief is that there is a person for you, there's a white knight somewhere, there's a princess somewhere, there's a thing somewhere and and you are entitled to them and you're gonna find them, is there some comfort in that that a queer person who might have the belief that, oh, I glimpsed something I was never supposed to even taste. Is it more challenging because then you have the fear, well, I I already had the forbidden fruit and I'll probably never find it again. So I don't know that we'll have an answer to that, but it was the question that when I brought it up, I saw a lot of heads nodding.

Yeah, I think there's a common thread in the queer community that that we have this narrative that many of us have struggled with is which are we lovable? Are we capable of being loved? And that really is a it's a universal story, and it's a universal limiting belief. But I think what I'm hearing you saying is that is it more frequent in queer people because of the stories and the, opinions that have been imposed upon us throughout us growing up. So, everyone has the potential to be receiving of that message of, like, oh, you're not worthy of love.

You are, you know, unlovable. We're saying that possibly the queer experience amplifies that and makes it potentially more common for queer people to be struggling with that limiting belief that

there there is potentially, a wider range. So I remember as a queer person, as a gay boy, hearing very derogatory remarks about gay people or queer people, that you might hear, like I might've gone to the gas station with my dad on our way back home or whatever, And then he runs into a friend and then you you will hear this remark about queer people and you know that they're on some level are talking about you and they're talking about how, like, awful or deplorable or, like, sinful you are.

I grew up with a, my dad loved George Carlin. And George Carlin has a joke about, queer people, rapists, and, like, murderers and pedophiles, like, all being rounded up and sent to the 4 corner states of the United States. And then once a year, you open up the boundaries and let them go at each other. But, like, that was, like, it was a joke. Right?

George Carlin is very famous for, like, pushing those boundaries. But as a young kid, I didn't understand that as a joke. I thought that, like, oh, my dad is listening to this, so he believes that's what should happen to to gay people. That they should be rounded up and brought to the 4 corner states with rapists and murderers.

Well, there's an equivalency there. It's saying queer people or gay people are are the same or on the same level as a murderer, as a pedophile. I don't know this joke. Luckily for me, I haven't heard it, although I'm gonna have you send it to me now because I'm curious about it, and whatever the 4th group was. But in that in that, there's messaging, oh, you are equally bad.

Now if we think about some of these crimes, this is not uncommon. Right? So if you're a queer person, you've probably had this experience of I've been equated to some of the most deplorable behaviors that exist and all I'm doing is living my life and trying to live the fullest life. So you are going to equate me with a pedophile. You're going to equate me with a rapist.

Oh, rapist was the other group. You're a murderer. And you're like, oh, I'm just, I'm just trying to like find happiness, pursue my purpose, make the world a better place, have a community and maybe find some love. You know, get a house, cook some food, whatever. There's an impact to that.

You're like, oh, people like even the person across the street might think that you are equivalent to those things. I think there is an emotional cost and I think we witnessed it yesterday because then, oh, I feel love. I was told I would never feel love. I should never feel love. Like it's almost impossible for me to feel love.

So then when I do feel love, it's amazing. And then when it goes away, this dread of I'm never gonna feel that again. So I don't have any scientific research to suggest that, it's necessarily harder for queer people, but my own experience would be, well, if I believed I deserved it, I'd probably be less fearful when it went away. Right.

I don't think it's about which is harder for anyone. I think it's about the frequency and the commonness of this limiting belief that can again, it's a universal story that can be told to people that you are not lovable. Right? Anyone on this planet can be given that story, and that could be baked into their subconscious. Sure.

What I'm thinking is that the queer experience, that narrative comes up more frequently

Mhmm.

Because of the examples that we've talked about, because of the the joke that I interpreted as a real thing. Right? And, like, that was to me, that was my father's perspective. Right? Like, oh, he's listening to this.

He listened to this man. That must be what he believes. And so, like, that baked into me for a very long time that, like, being gay is bad. Totally. Right?

And so, like, that's the frequency of, like, these messages that we receive as a society. Right? We're getting getting a little bit better. It's not still not great. Right?

But there's Generationally, we are taking steps. Right?

Yeah. I'm gonna share a story. I was in Pittsburgh, which is where I grew up, and I'm a proud Pittsburgher. I love Pittsburgh and it fostered so many things and, allowed me to be a dancer and the Civic Light Opera and Larry Servais dance studios and so many other incredible places and people and resources and, you know, whatever. And so I was there, but I had already started at NYU.

And so I was home visiting, and I went to visit my biological father, a person with whom I had, a sporadic relationship. And he invited me to lunch and he worked in the strip district in like a warehouse, like a fish warehouse or a trucking trucking for fish. I don't know. Something like that. And so we we went to lunch, but he he said, oh, my boss is, like, surprisingly in town.

He has to come with us. I was like, great. Like, I barely know my dad. Let alone, like, now there's another stranger and we're gonna go eat food together. So we all went to eat food.

And I'm I'm at the time, like, studying dance at NYU. And, I don't know, Probably pretty queer. I mean, my wardrobe was jeans and a t shirt. I'm pretty sure and a jacket, but,

this would be discussed probably much tighter than the

Yeah.

But, like, probably fit differently. That's right.

Like a little bit of spandex in the jeans because you never know when you don't wanna do a split. Anyway, we, you know, we had this lunch and, it was an awkward lunch because, like, my dad, I don't think, like, was super good friends with his boss or whatever. And so we're walking back and we walked back past this, bar called Lucky's, which is like a very unassuming place in the strip district with like a like a neon clover in the window. You know, Lucky's, you know. And so we're walking.

It's very awkward. And my dad's boss says, if you ever wanna get a drink, like, don't go in there because it's a queer bar. And then they had a conversation about it. And I remember like walking past and thinking I was just there last night. I was hanging out with my friends there last night.

But this is the kind of message you hear over and over. So at that time I was more resilient too. I don't really care what this guy thinks, but I realized, Oh, in my whole childhood, my whole upbringing, that message was coming over and over. Don't go there because they are there. Don't go there because these things happen there.

And so, and it was, you know, if Lucky still exists, I would go there. But it's like a kind of bar. It's not like the kind of bar you find in New York City where you're like, I'm an unapologetic, like, gay bar. It's like a quiet, reserved, safer, you know, place. And which lends itself to this idea of, like, it's a little bit secret.

It's a little bit shadowy. It's a little bit, like, in the corner.

Undercover gay bar.

Totally, which has its place, but lends itself to the narrative of, like, oh, queer people live in shadows. Queer people are shadowy. Queer you know? And so that story pops up for me because I thought, oh, it's really interesting. This person has a very strong opinion about what happens in that bar.

They've probably never been in that bar. And I was there last night. Mhmm.

I actually had a great time. Yeah. Yeah. And so, like, hearing these types of messages start to can start to inform, like, how we perceive the world, and especially if we're hearing these messages as as younger kids. So, like, I think we should take a step back and actually, like, unpack what we're talking about when we talk about limiting beliefs.

Okay. And these, harmful narratives. So could you, get us up to speed on on how you perceive limiting beliefs?

Limiting beliefs are these ideas that we carry with us that I mean, I don't want to use a word to define a word, but limit our capacity that, that diminish us in some way. So shame is the ultimate limiting belief. I am not enough. And any version of I am not enough is a limiting belief. So I am not strong enough, smart enough, good enough, nice enough, attractive enough.

Like and those are all like these and and we well, we we get these beliefs, we're handed them or we develop them. And then when we carry them around, it's this idea of if I if I look for into the world to validate a thing that I believe, I will find evidence to to affirm it. Mhmm.

So If if you're constantly on the Amir, actually, our teacher Amir said this to me the other day. It's like, if you're, always on the lookout for tigers, guess what you're not gonna be able to see? The beautiful thing, you know, on the side of the road. Like, if you're just constantly in hypervigilance mode, like looking for tigers, that's what you're looking for. And you're gonna have a really hard time not seeing tigers in everything that you do.

Well, and we see it, in our queer community a lot or especially in the gay male community, where people spend enormous amounts of time and money and resource on curating their own bodies. They wanna be sexy. They wanna be muscular. They wanna be lean in particular ways that, you know, but this belief, if you have it that I'm not enough, I'm not big enough, strong enough, whatever the thing, you can always find something that you would improve upon. You can always find something you're like, well, you know, this looks good, but I still

I may have a 12 pack, but

But, but, but, but, but you know, like my, the size of my genitals, like the size of my butt, like the, you know, what can I bench? But you know, whatever. If you're looking for areas where you are not enough, you will find them. And as I say this, I'm like, can you call me every 5 minutes and remind me of this? I do it still to be like, oh, like I get all this evidence and I have to like I have to reframe how I feel about it.

But but that's the so the power of a limiting belief is that it, like, is this, this, like, soundtrack in our heads and our lives. Like, this this low lying thing that can pop up at any moment. And so what we have to do is shine the light of awareness on it to be like, Oh, I believe this about me and with the light of awareness, but do I really believe that about me? And then if I don't, what can I believe about me? I'm gonna I don't know why this is popping up for me, but I'm gonna share it.

I remember, when I was wrestling with being a homosexual and I was afraid that I was going to burn in hell. And I remember I was walking on the street with my friend Christina. I was at NYU studying dance and I said, I just don't want to burn in hell. And she looked at me and she said, Tim, if you burn in hell, we will all see you there. And I had this moment of relaxation when I thought, oh, so many people that I love and that I think are good, don't meet the criteria.

And then I flash back to no matter how often I was told that queer people were sinful or dirty or whatever they were, it never felt like that to me. I never felt like a demon. I was told I was 1, but I never felt like it. And

that

was a really eye opening moment of like, oh, I have to that was the beginning of me starting to reframe that belief even though I know that I'm still working to reframe that belief. 20 years later, I'm still working to reframe it. But that idea of I was told I'm not enough, but I started to see evidence. Oh, maybe me like little cracks in this argument of like you're you're evil or demon demonic. I'm like, oh no, all the people I love right now, all the people I really want to hang out with, many of them don't meet this criteria.

What does that mean? Is it possible that we are all doomed? You're like, probably not. Or God is super mean. Right?

Right. So, like, there's

the little cracks. Right? So if if we've got this constant thing going on in our head, these little cracks of light that gets start shining through, that's that's the goal. Right? And so we want to continue to, like you said, shine the light of awareness when we start to, realize that these beliefs are starting to hijack our from our subconscious.

They're starting to hijack the way that we exist in the world and the the ways that we think about things. And so just starting to become a little bit more aware of them, catching ourselves in the moment. And so I wanna take this back to last night's practice. Mhmm. What were some of the ways in which we were trying to expose them?

We, the theme was detoxification. Yeah. Right? And so we wanted to bring some of these thoughts up to the surface and start to work with them.

Well, the practice was designed on 2 levels because sometimes we know we feel really clear about what it is we need to detoxify, what we want to let go of, what we want to release. And then sometimes, and I've had this experience, I know something needs to shift, but I'm not entirely sure what. And so last night's practice was all about utilizing these physical tools to create a shift even if we don't know specifically what it is we're detoxing because through the practice, the shift might help us gain an awareness. So I mentioned at the circle about the yogic subtle body anatomy of the 5 koshas. The 5 a Kosha is a sheath or a body.

So technically in according to yoga or the lineage in which I was trained, there are 5 bodies. We have our physical body, our energetic body, our emotional body, our intellectual body, and our bliss body. And it is said that when we impact one of them, we can impact all of them. And so when when you see people doing yoga asana, the postures of yoga and breath work, or Kriyas, cleansing actions, sometimes people are like, well, how is taking a shape or stretching your hamstrings or doing a breath spiritual? You're like, well, it's, it is a conversation with like all aspects of me.

And so the practice last night was really built on, we can start to make some changes and then shine our own light of awareness on whatever might have shifted. And so if you're in that place where something needs to move, but I don't know what, then do some practice and start to notice what is happening as things start to move. And that can be an insight into it. I don't think it's usually like one practice and you're like, oh, I need to change my relationship. I need to change my address.

I need to change my work. But it can be like, oh, that's gonna turn my head in a way.

Yeah. And while I was in that practice, I had that moment where I was like, I don't know really what needs to to come up. I was like toying around with a couple of things. I was like, is it is it the belief that I'm not enough? Is it the belief that I'm not lovable?

Like, which which one of these is is most ripe right now? And then I did. I had that that flash, and there was, a conversation that you and I had had about, like, signing up for a course, and it was a yoga course. And my my gut reaction was, like, I'm not a yoga instructor. I don't I shouldn't do that.

So, really, it was my my tape telling me, like, I'm not enough. I can't do that. I'm not I'm not that at all, and so I shouldn't do it. And so I had to catch myself in that moment, and I was like, ah, okay. So that's caught you by the tail like to call sometimes like this little worm that is like trying to dig its way into my brain.

It's just like making its way through the the the all the lobes. And in those moments, I like catch it by the tail. And I'm like, no, not right now. Yeah. Then, you know, I let it go and it still, like, wiggles its way around.

But that's what I did last time. I was just able to, like, catch it and start to, like, be like, okay. I see this and now, like, let's let's work with it for for the rest of the practice.

Yeah. So it can, in my experience, take numerous practices before you get a really tangible piece of information. It happens in therapy all the time. I I remember someone asked me about like my experience in therapy. And And they're like, well, what do you talk about when you don't have, like, a big thing going on?

And I remember I'm like, yeah, sometimes I go in and, it's not as clear, you know, I'm not in the throes of a breakup or like a big emotional experience. But I've always felt like every even those sessions contribute to those moments when you're like, I have this epiphany, this moment of clarity. And so that was the practice last night. The practice was about all we're gonna do is work with our 5 bodies and then see what comes. And because most of us have something that is stuck, even if we don't know exactly what we need to let go of or what we need to transform, we can be curious about what comes when we start to move our energy consciously, when we start to connect and become more present.

When we start to direct our light of awareness, but what can come? Almost everyone in that circle indicated that something came. So that doesn't mean it will always come, but it's a good indication to me that it's a great place to start. Absolutely. You don't have a lot to lose.

Right. It's a safe space to really start to become aware of where those, self judgments, I might even call them. Right? The the self judgment of like, I'm not enough, like that starts to bubble up in an incident place like this, that you can start to witness it, see it, and then through brotherhood and conversation afterwards also start to bring a little bit of more self compassion. So when we talk about, you know, identifying a limiting belief, starting to shine the awareness on it, the the method that's been helpful for me is to, present the opposite of that when I start to find myself in that pattern.

So if I'm telling myself, like, I'm not lovable, my new one is that I tell myself I am easy to love. Actually really, really easy to love.

It's a new occurring worldview. You created a new occurring worldview, which is also a practice because I have to imagine the first few times you did it, it felt a little put on or a little bit foreign or maybe even uncomfortable. I mean, why don't you tell us how did it feel when you first started working with it?

When I first said those words, I actually laughed and I smiled. Okay. So it felt good. Okay. It felt really like natural and lovely because I had just come out of a conversation of like unpacking some of the reasons why I believe that I wasn't lovable.

Let's pause there. Let's pause there because when people, like, in within the mirror circle, when you look for a new occurring worldview, which is a reframe of your limiting belief, that feeling that it feels good is the indication that you're onto something. So you have to say it a few times and then notice, well, how does it feel in me? So even if it feels a little put on because it's so different, there's some spark of like, oh, but this Right. There's something about it.

Say is that the the initial one was like I lit up and then it was I almost started collapsing immediately afterwards where I was like, then I started feeling, oh, this doesn't this this isn't this doesn't feel right. This feels put on. This is made up. This is not who I am at all. Right?

I'm back to, like, I'm not lovable. But then, like, then saying it again, getting a little bit more comfortable with it. So it was it was a a high high at first and then I like plummeted real low and now it's just been a practice of like continuously bringing it in when I start to hear myself going down those really self judgment, self critical paths.

Yeah. So I I'm curious, you know, when we think about limiting beliefs and how they can impact us, I wonder how many people are aware of their limiting beliefs. Because I know through life experience and through coaching people, conflicts have occurred because you get triggered by someone because they've brushed against your limiting belief. And especially if you're not aware of it, all you know is that it hurts and then you start to become reactive. So the, the benefit of recognizing even, even before you create a new occurring worldview and a reframe of that belief, recognizing that you have the belief will let you know, wait, so my reaction right now feels really big.

And then you think, oh, that's probably because it's more than just what's happening right now. So I think in AA, I have a lot of friends who are in AA. They if it's historical no, if it's hysterical, it's historical. Right? This idea that if you are in a really big place, chances are it's more than just this one thing, but this one thing is tapping into a whole pattern of things.

So it feels to me like AA's one way that they are tapping into this limiting belief, like, oh, it it triggered that idea. The more we could be aware of these beliefs in our life and how the even their presence, the more we can start to recognize, oh, I got really short with that person because of this.

It's what I'm hearing is like referencing step 4. Step 4 is creating a a fearless moral inventory based off of, how in our lives our instincts have gone awry. Right? So we all have our god given instincts, which is how we survive in this world. And what happens to some of us is that our we stop trusting in our instincts.

So our instincts, you know, basic fundamentals like the, you know, the need to, you know, survive is based off of our ability to get food, to procreate, to find, a a status in society or whatever the the group that we're in. And so, some of us develop a mistrust of our basic instincts that that then send us into a tailspin, and that can manifest in a lot of different ways. A, likes to use the 7 deadly sins. It's an easy, you know, modality to grasp onto. So, in what ways in my life, has greed started to come up?

Where is pride? Where is envy? Where is, you know, all the the 7 deadly sentences? Mhmm. And it's very helpful to, like, kinda map out through that.

And that's part of my therapy journey is, like, working through those things and then mapping them to, okay, where where am I having a mistrust in my ability to get something met, a need met? And what can I start to do to, you know, resolve that?

So step 4 is there a

name for step 4? It's the fearless moral inventory as I've come to to know it. Got it. Yeah. And it can be it's it's a difficult one because it's like, we call them character defects.

They're defects of our character when, you know, some of these things have started to to bubble up. So, like, in what ways am I defective because my instincts are gone awry and I'm starting to feel this intense fear. And I actually wanna bring this back to the opening of the conversation, which is that we sometimes as gay men, queer men, queer people will start to get a glimpse of love. And then, through our scarcity mindset, if we were told that, you know, we don't deserve love or you're never gonna find love, then we get love and it's like all of a sudden we're now like in a fear that, oh, it's gonna go away.

Mhmm. Right?

And now we're in scarcity mode. Sure. And that fear is now taken over which is triggered from a underlying, like, instant gunner eye.

So the the lineage in which I'm being trained, we use the phrase low vibrating traits. Does that feel congruent with what you're talking yeah. So I I recognize, there's something about the character defect that feels kind of intense to me, but I'm not

Oh, it's yeah.

Yeah. I'm not I'm

There's lots of ways in which people soften it because when you're first presented to it, it's like but that's where pride comes in. Just like, how dare you? Right? So like your pride self really starts to kick in when you hear something like that.

Well, I think for me it's like this yogic perspective of we are all 1, we are all divine, we are all. So if I do have a low vibrating trait, it's a thing that I can transform. It is an inherent, it doesn't have to be an inherent part of me. So if I have scarcity mentality, I could transform that into abundance mentality. I don't wanna go too deep into that because I'm not familiar enough, but I will say that, like, oh, that feels intense, like, pretty intense.

Like, character defect is like, oh. But but whatever version we're using, I think it's important to recognize, oh, if I have a tendency towards fear, scarcity, mistrust, it's probably like permeating all aspects of my life. And so I say this when I teach yoga Alright, and I don't know, I don't know how this lands for students when they're in my class, but I really mean it. I'm like, if something is coming up for you on your mat, it absolutely comes up for you in your life. I've never seen it be not true.

So if you're on the mat and then you're suddenly deep in your preference, I don't like what this teacher is doing today. I don't like the music they're playing or if you're in it and you can't do a pose and you start to get into this deep negative self talk, I'm not good enough. I've never, you know, whatever the thing is that comes up on your mat, it is permeating your life. So step 1, become aware of that. Oh, I have a tendency to beat myself up.

I have a tendency to judge other people. I have a tendency, you know, and then when you're in it, you can start, oh, I'm judging that person because, and then you, you know, you start to get more and more clarity or, oh, I'm beating myself up because, you know, and I think it's really, that's like the power of understanding our limiting beliefs is this, it will impact a lot of how we are and who we are and how we show up. And then we can start to exert through practice and patience, change if we want, start to change that narrative. It won't necessarily happen overnight, but oh, I I have this idea that I have a scarcity mentality and then I then I have to like, I've been doing work. So that's the thing for me.

I remember so many times where I thought like there was a limited amount of good. So when something good would happen to me, I would almost immediately be worried about the bad thing that was coming as repayment to like balance it out and that still exists in my life now. And I had to think, well, oh, I see you and the universe actually wants there to be lots of good, but I have to, I have to do like almost a little mantra affirmation. Like the universe wants me to succeed. The universe wants me to like live my fullness.

The universe isn't keeping a weird like balance sheet and deducting when my balance gets too high. That isn't how it works. But I'm counteracting this idea of, you know, and I will tell you this, as a story, when I was in high school, I was a junior in high school. I was the dance lead in, the the high school musical production of, Carousel by Rodgers and Hammerstein. And our high school musical was a big deal.

And in Pittsburgh, they had the Gene Kelly Awards, which were like Tony's for high school musicals. And, they had made an announcement in the newspaper that the schools and their nominations. And our school had gotten 9 nominations, which is tied for the highest. And we were gonna be nominate we were gonna receive 1 judges award. And I in my mind, I was like, I think that judges award might be for me because there was no, like, dance category.

And another person in our school a few years prior had won the award. I'm like, oh, it might be for me. It's like a, you know, lead dancer. But this year they had also done, this thing where they got 2 people from each high school to do an opening number. And I was chosen to be the person, the male person from our school.

They were like like 1 boy, 1 girl. That's what they were sending. And so I remember I got the call and I immediately had disappointment. Because I was like, oh, if I'm the chosen person from our school, then I probably won't win the judges award. And what I really want is to win the judges award.

I just in my mind, I was like, there's no way I can have both of these things. It's too much good.

Maybe thinking there was a consolation prize. Well, I don't know. I don't like, that was just like, let's throw him a bone.

No. No. No. No. I I I mean, I think this was like I was thinking about it from the perspective of the universe.

Like, I don't think there were any adults who were like, we're gonna pacify him in this way. Got it. To me, I felt like, oh, the universe, there's no way I could I could both be in this opening number as the representative for my school and win the judges award. And so I had unbelievable sadness around it even though I had just been, like, given a big honor. Well, it turns out I did win the judges award and I got to do both things, but it wasn't until I was given a heads up many days later for days I was like, oh, I'm not gonna not gonna get the thing I really want because these two things can't coexist.

Scarcity. Scarcity. Like the universe is, you know, keeping a balance sheet and you have to, you know, I was waiting for something bad to come and the bad would have been you're not getting that award. And I work hard all the time to try to remind myself that isn't that isn't what the universe wants from us. And it's interesting because when I think about other people and especially people I care about, I really want them to be super happy all the time.

I have no limit in my mind about what they could experience. I only have it for me. Right? So, like, you're a dear friend of mine and I can imagine so much good for you, like unlimited good for you. And then for me it's like, well this one good thing happened, so I probably can't have probably can't have more than that or certainly not in the next, you know, x amount of time.

And so in the work I've been doing, you know, in men's work and spiritual growth and with Amir, the first thing I do is, oh, that's your scarcity mentality. And then I try to bring in the new occurring worldview, you know,

in those moments that for for me anyway, it's like I have to develop my ability to trust that trust that the universe that, call it a higher power, something has my back. And for a long time, and even today, it's like it's it's a daily struggle. I have a lot of mistrust. I have a lot of mistrust when it comes to, the goodness that could come my way. Mhmm.

Doubting that I deserve it, that that it's gonna, you know, stay for long, that it's gonna, you know, fade away. And that's that's part of my practice now. It's just learning to surrender and trust that, like like you said, like, the universe is trying to help us out.

Yep. That's but that's a practice because now we go back to the very beginning of this where I feel like the messaging I received was that I was inherently sinful and dirty and demonic, sort of the opposite of God. And the the concept I was given as a kid of who was looking out for us was a God that wanted to send me to hell. So it isn't a surprise, to me at least, that, oh, well, now it's hard for me to feel and believe like someone's looking out for me because I was told they weren't. I was told I was told not only were they not looking out for me, they wanted to send me to the worst place I could possibly imagine.

And if you think about, you know, all the, all the money and time that was spent in creating images of how awful this place might be. Right? So the the the the the being, the entity that is, benevolently looking upon all the people who deserve it and protecting them, well, they're not protecting me. That's the message I was told. And so do I have a hard time then feeling that?

Probably. Right? Like, like is it a surprise that I'm having a hard time believing that? No. You told me that the person looking out for you wants to send me to a fiery pit for eternity.

They want me to be tortured. It is the opposite of taking care of me. If any queer person listening to this can relate, like this is going to take, I've been working on this for decades and I have a long way to go because it's a really powerful message of like you deserve like awfulness and the person looking out for all those people over there, they're not looking out for you. If anything, they're hunting you

And switching that though, not switching topics, but, like, what I Reframing? Reframing. Right? Catholic god is starting to be replaced from what I heard from you by the universe. Something Yeah.

Bigger than yourself Yeah. Is trying to take care of you.

So this is what I have to say about yoga. The one like, when people ask me why is yoga your primary spiritual practice? There are so many things about it that I absolutely love, but my like, the main thing that I really love is that there was never an asterisk by my name in yoga. There was never, you can do this but because you're gay, but this or it'll take you like no. In yoga, my experience was always ever, I am here equal to everyone else here on the same journey doing the same thing.

I mean, I've been a part of other spiritual traditions that are like, well, if you're gay, you can still make it. You won't make it in this lifetime, but you can still make it. You can make it in another lifetime. Well that feels like a diminishment of some sort or, you know, in yoga it's like, nope, I'm a Jiva, you're a Jiva, we're all Jiva and we're all doing our thing and we make it or we don't make it based on any number of things. But much of that isn't some, you know, original sin, you know, because of my sexuality or who I choose to love.

So why do I love yoga? That like I can, I am on equal footing with every other person and

that is refreshing? And how does how does that connect to, the work that you're doing around limiting beliefs and the reframing and the, the what what what do we call it? The the medicine Oh, the the the new occurring

the new occurring worldview. Yeah. Well, so a lot of the, a lot of the mantras, the chants that we speak in in yoga are a reminder of our oneness. Yoga, union, right, and loka samastasukhino bhavantu. May all beings may all beings everywhere be happy and free.

And may the thoughts, words, and actions of my own life contribute in some way to that happiness and to that freedom for all. My other favorite chant, May all beings be happy. May all be free from sickness. May all see and experience what is good and beautiful in life. And may no one be unhappy.

There is no except for gay people, except for queer people, except for this group of people. May all beings and so the practice of yoga is really a reminder. I'm like, oh, I'm part of that. I'm part of all. How beautiful is that?

I mean, I don't want to get into a deep religious conversation about other things, but, there is a beauty to me in the possibility of all of us being loving and compassionate and, interested in things bigger than ourselves and the wellness of the one, that to me, that is really beautiful. And the idea that I'm gonna take groups of people and separate them and segregate them and and and then have different opinions about them, feels less natural to me.

Right. There's an inherent goodness in people. And through this work, wanting to celebrate that and to help people, men in specifically, you know, in the relation to this podcast, you know, see that that that we have been told a lot of things in our lives. And we've some of it we've told ourselves, some of it's been handed to us. And through conversations like this, through open sharing, through, contemplative practices, through physical practices, we're helping to like bring it up to the surface so that we can start to help each other realize the inherent goodness in us and that we can start to rewrite some of these things that have been told to us over time.

Exactly. So as we wrap up the this I go back to this idea of, you know, I was when I was told that I was dark or demonic or evil, it never felt like that. And anytime we can be reminded of, oh, I I I feel like a person who wants to do good, to add good, to create good, and I feel like I wanna participate in that in small ways and big ways in personally and in relationship and in family and in community and in the world, we can we can start to break free from these ideas that, like, oh, I'm not I'm not able to do that or I'm not worthy of that or I'm not entitled to that. And so, you know, without this becoming a commercial about yoga, it does allow that that possibility of, like, well, we're all in it together. And so coming to these practices provides us an opportunity to remember even in small parts from time to time, that aspect of us and start to experience it and let it inform our awareness.

Beautifully said. Thank you. I feel very complete with this episode. How do you feel?

I feel complete and I feel like we can, we're gonna talk about it a 100 more times. There's so much more to say, but yes. I mean, yes. As for tonight? For tonight, we're good.

I feel complete. Thank you so much for joining us here in the circle. And as we leave now, I wish you brotherhood, connection, authenticity, vulnerability, safety, and love. And with these words, our container is open but not broken. If you'd like to stay connected to us between episodes, please follow us on Instagram at queermensembodiment.

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